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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 2018 OEM Pike RC 130mm 29" it has the latest Debonair air spring. I'm an experienced rider riding natural aggro xc mostly, 65kg and getting a bit beat up on the rough stuff. I understand the latest 2.1 dampers are a lot more refined and have a lighter compression tune which would suit me so I'm thinking of upgrading.

Why is the RC2 so much more expensive than the RCT3? Is it just down to the extra complication of a HSC adjuster or are there any fundamentally different things going on?
 

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Why is the RC2 so much more expensive than the RCT3? Is it just down to the extra complication of a HSC adjuster or are there any fundamentally different things going on?
I'm interested in this, too. I've got a Yari and am looking for the best bang-for-the-buck damper upgrade between a Charger 2 RC2 or a Charger 2.1 RCT3.
 

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I have a 2018 OEM Pike RC 130mm 29" it has the latest Debonair air spring. I'm an experienced rider riding natural aggro xc mostly, 65kg and getting a bit beat up on the rough stuff. I understand the latest 2.1 dampers are a lot more refined and have a lighter compression tune which would suit me so I'm thinking of upgrading.

Why is the RC2 so much more expensive than the RCT3? Is it just down to the extra complication of a HSC adjuster or are there any fundamentally different things going on?
I bought the RC2 2.1 over the RCT3 when I upgraded, I wanted to have the extra adjustment.
It's better than the RC I had before, but I wouldn't say it's a dramatic improvement, I can still feel the hi speed chatter on small hits.
I feel that the hi speed rebound is much faster than the RC 1.0 and it's taking me some time to get used to it.
 

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I'm in a similar boat, I have a 2017 Pike RCT3 - I think the only option for me is the 2.1 RCT3? Came in here to ask that, hopefully I don't hijack.

Anyway, just an observation... when you say aggro XC do you utilize any of the compression adjust (open/pedal/firm)? You'd lose that with RC2 in exchange for separate HSC- which given your weight and riding style maybe you won't need it...
 

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I'm in a similar boat, I have a 2017 Pike RCT3 - I think the only option for me is the 2.1 RCT3? Came in here to ask that, hopefully I don't hijack.

Anyway, just an observation... when you say aggro XC do you utilize any of the compression adjust (open/pedal/firm)? You'd lose that with RC2 in exchange for separate HSC- which given your weight and riding style maybe you won't need it...
You can install the RC2 if you have the boost lowers. I have a OEM Pike from a 2017 bike (I guess i'ts a model year 2018?) and put in the RC2 2.1.

The part is 00.4020.169.005.
 

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Ah gotcha, thanks for the part #. I may go RCT3 cause this pike is on my hardcore HT "XC" bike and actually do use the compression settings for all out sprints.

Just need to figure out if my 27.5+/29 pike needs the 27.5 or 29 damper lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
... when you say aggro XC do you utilize any of the compression adjust (open/pedal/firm)? You'd lose that with RC2 in exchange for separate HSC- which given your weight and riding style maybe you won't need it...
You don't get the three positions on the OEM RC, just a compression adjustment. I've never used the compression anything other than wide open for more than three seconds and thinking why is this knob here? 😁 I just wondered if the RC2 was a step up from the RCT3 in performance all other things being equal.
 

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Charger 2 and 2.1 are better dampers than charger 1 so you are much better off installing that. It can still be tuned how you like later if needed as the pedal mode doesn't interfere with the HS damping
 

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Care to elaborate? I ordered one to replace the charger 1. I need the pedal mode.

Debating on installing the 2.1 rct3, or having my c1 rct3 tuned.

Thanks!
The RCT3 has a firmer shim stack (and hydraulic preload cup for C2/2.1) so it can behave like a lockout in pedal mode. This hampers it's performance as a damper.

Why do you need pedal mode?

There isn't any real advantage to C2.1 RCT3 vs Charger 1 RCT3 but there are some detriments.

Both give you pedal mode at the expense of suspension. But because Charger1 RCT3 acheives pedal mode by bringing in an additional spring to preload the shims, the damper can be tuned to perform better in open mode while still having pedal mode.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Both give you pedal mode at the expense of suspension. But because Charger1 RCT3 acheives pedal mode by bringing in an additional spring to preload the shims, the damper can be tuned to perform better in open mode while still having pedal mode.
Thanks Dougal, I'm so just by way of omitting the pedal mode the RC2 is able to be a less compromised damper than the RCT3?
 

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Why do you need pedal mode?
the pike is on my hardcore HT which was supposed to be second bike for mellow terrain but morphed into my everything bike: xc/trail/aggressive dh. I do a lot of sprinting out of saddle to beat climbing PR, also because its a hardtail I'm just out of the saddle a lot more than my FS. basically I live over the front end of it and I like the lockout for that purpose.

Thanks for the insight. I'll probably just drop in the debonair first, hold off on the damper, and go from there.
 

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Hi Dougal

Thank you for the advice you have given on numerous suspension threads.
I thought I had finally got everything together and had made my mind up to get the RCT3 2.1 upgrade to my 2019 Revelation debonair since on another thread it was stated that the 2.1 is superior to the 2..

The points you noted were:
The LSC knob on the Charger 2 doesnt do anything usefull. Fixed on charger 2.1
Softer HSC than before.
Fixed the Rebound(the 2 got awkward trying to get fast enough HSR


I live in an area where we have long dirtroad sections between trails and I definitely make use of the trail mode when climbing out the saddle to releave the quads..Therefore I thought I'd be killing two birts with one stone since The C2.1 RCT3 as it is also much more affordable than the RC2, and the fact that the general consensus on the 2.1 was that the HSC was pretty good for the 70kg kinda guy like me, and that the LSC could then be fine tuned to get a bit of a platform sounded perfect.

I only read the post you made below this morning, and now I'm completely stumped. I'm in Berlin next week and was going to get the new RCT3 from Bikecomponents.de

Are you saying that there is such a big difference between the new RCT3 and RC2 that its better to get the previous generation, with the above mentioned shortfalls. Taking into consideration, the person tuning my fork might not be Yourself ?

There are still some C2 RCT3's on ebay..
 

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Hi Dougal

Thank you for the advice you have given on numerous suspension threads.
I thought I had finally got everything together and had made my mind up to get the RCT3 2.1 upgrade to my 2019 Revelation debonair since on another thread it was stated that the 2.1 is superior to the 2..

The points you noted were:
The LSC knob on the Charger 2 doesnt do anything usefull. Fixed on charger 2.1
Softer HSC than before.
Fixed the Rebound(the 2 got awkward trying to get fast enough HSR

I live in an area where we have long dirtroad sections between trails and I definitely make use of the trail mode when climbing out the saddle to releave the quads..Therefore I thought I'd be killing two birts with one stone since The C2.1 RCT3 as it is also much more affordable than the RC2, and the fact that the general consensus on the 2.1 was that the HSC was pretty good for the 70kg kinda guy like me, and that the LSC could then be fine tuned to get a bit of a platform sounded perfect.

I only read the post you made below this morning, and now I'm completely stumped. I'm in Berlin next week and was going to get the new RCT3 from Bikecomponents.de

Are you saying that there is such a big difference between the new RCT3 and RC2 that its better to get the previous generation, with the above mentioned shortfalls. Taking into consideration, the person tuning my fork might not be Yourself ?

There are still some C2 RCT3's on ebay..
My comments about the C2.1 are all about the RC2 version. I haven't yet been inside a C2.1 RCT3 and have no idea what they have done to the shim stacks in them compared to the C2 RCT3.

I don't like the C2 (or C1) RCT3 stock tunes. These are dampers designed around providing pedal platform rather than providing good bump eating performance.
 

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My comments about the C2.1 are all about the RC2 version. I haven't yet been inside a C2.1 RCT3 and have no idea what they have done to the shim stacks in them compared to the C2 RCT3.

I don't like the C2 (or C1) RCT3 stock tunes. These are dampers designed around providing pedal platform rather than providing good bump eating performance.[/QUOTE

OK. I understand what you mean. Not to read your reply to literally, correct me if I am, if the shim stacks are tuned to allow a firm pedal platform, it should in essence possible to lighten that tune right?

Would you care to elaborate on the comment; "The RCT3 has a firmer shim stack (and hydraulic preload cup for C2/2.1) so it can behave like a lockout in pedal mode. This hampers it's performance as a damper." I take it this is in open mode aswel.

Obviously taking into account you have not stripped one down.
 

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My comments about the C2.1 are all about the RC2 version. I haven't yet been inside a C2.1 RCT3 and have no idea what they have done to the shim stacks in them compared to the C2 RCT3.

I don't like the C2 (or C1) RCT3 stock tunes. These are dampers designed around providing pedal platform rather than providing good bump eating performance.
OK. I understand what you mean. Not to read your reply to literally, correct me if I am, if the shim stacks are tuned to allow a firm pedal platform, it should in essence possible to lighten that tune right?

Would you care to elaborate on the comment; "The RCT3 has a firmer shim stack (and hydraulic preload cup for C2/2.1) so it can behave like a lockout in pedal mode. This hampers it's performance as a damper." I take it this is in open mode aswel.

Obviously taking into account you have not stripped one down.
When you soften up the shim stack in the RCT3 it also softens up the pedal modes. It's one shim stack doing all duties.

We've got the C2 RCT3 all mapped out and the differences I expect between the 2 and 2.1 RCT3 is the new sealhead, new midvalve/rebound piston and new shim stacks on compression and rebound.

But I haven't confirmed that yet and the compression shim stack is the biggest question mark.
 

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I cant actually find any C2 RTC'3 dampers...

I'm going to have to get a 2.1 version and see what one can do with it. I don't mind losing the lockout, but would'nt mind keeping the trail setting.

The hydraulic preload cup you mention, can you elaborate on that? what is it and why is it a negative?
 

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I have a 2010 Lyrik RC2DH 26”. It looks like I can get a Charger 2 RCT3 upgrade kit. Is it worth it to upgrade since I lose the high speed compression and I will probably never lock it out? Or is the charger 2 that much better?
 
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