Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
915 Posts
ive been looking at this as someone gave me a Rogue frame (or rather I swapped some stuff for it.

As far as I can see the rear changed slightly, firstly to accomodate a through axle design i think there may have also been a change to an asymetrical chainstays.

Geometry wise, all the intial tests listed the head angle at 67 degrees with a fox 36 150mm fork axle crown approx 535mm. Today they list it at 67 degrees with a fox 40, axle crown 571mm. That would seem to imply the angles were steepend.

However I suspect this is not the case and the angles are being misquoted.

Some folks on here have measured their head angles and quoted anything from 66.5 to 67.8 degrees depending on set up.

The BB remains sky high approx 14.8inch for a rogue fitted with a 8.5 x2.75in shock and a fox 40.

Imho this bike desperately needs an update. A 1/2 to 3/4 inch lower bb a degree off the head angle. That would make it a bike for todays park orientated riders, lower for the corners and slacker for the steeps, but still a freeride/all mountain bike not a DH bike.

If they went with a 1.5inch headset k9 angle headset cups could be used to achieve the above geometry changes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Why wouldn't you just put an 8.5 X 2.5 shock and the 8 inch travel fork and move the lower crown up the legs 3/8 inch to get slacker headtube, and use a flatter bars with a direct mount to keep the front end low. This was my best downhill setup. I moved my crown up about 1/4 inch and that was all I could get with my headset(I was running an S3 +5mm which moved it up some to start). If I was running a more speed oriented course without low speed technical drops then I ran 30+ sag on rear and 25 front to keep her low.
When I set it up to free-ride I would go back to 8.75 on rear with 25% sag to steepen the HTA for the jumps and it allows me to pedal through the entry corners on some of the tight jumps and drops on our trail, due to higher BB height. Also kept me from bottoming out on the drops to flat.
It all depends on the trails that you ride. If you have a smooth Ride Park and you can get away with minimal travel then drop the rear to 6 inches with an air shock, and put the Lyrik 170mm on it. I think that would be an awesome set up for Bike Park, and should lower the BB an inch or maybe a little more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
915 Posts
calvinstoney said:
Why wouldn't you just put an 8.5 X 2.5 shock and the 8 inch travel fork and move the lower crown up the legs 3/8 inch to get slacker headtube, and use a flatter bars with a direct mount to keep the front end low. This was my best downhill setup. I moved my crown up about 1/4 inch and that was all I could get with my headset(I was running an S3 +5mm which moved it up some to start). If I was running a more speed oriented course without low speed technical drops then I ran 30+ sag on rear and 25 front to keep her low.
When I set it up to free-ride I would go back to 8.75 on rear with 25% sag to steepen the HTA for the jumps and it allows me to pedal through the entry corners on some of the tight jumps and drops on our trail, due to higher BB height. Also kept me from bottoming out on the drops to flat.
It all depends on the trails that you ride. If you have a smooth Ride Park and you can get away with minimal travel then drop the rear to 6 inches with an air shock, and put the Lyrik 170mm on it. I think that would be an awesome set up for Bike Park, and should lower the BB an inch or maybe a little more.
Running an 8.75 x2.75in shock at 40% gives the same ride geometry as running and 8.5 x 2.5 at 33%. so you only really need to change the springs to achieve the same results.

Ells recommend a 40% sag set up for DH style riding.

Its good to hear your actual experiences, as most of the talk here is just theory based on static angles and how it actually feels to ride is far more important,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
915 Posts
This is part of an email I recieved from Ells on this subject


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kenton,



Below is the spec’s for the Rogue’s 6, 7 or 8” travel set up. The Leverage ratio is close to a 1/3, but that does change throughout its cycle, as a progressive design. We’ve kept it simple for publishing and list them as even numbers, but in reality you get slightly more at 6.25, 7.5, 8.25. Just as you have found. Note the head angle and the BB height on the 6”, slow and low.















Spec
Rogue 6" (Sml/Lrg)
Rogue 7" (Sml/Lrg)
Rogue 8" (Sml/Lrg)
Moment 6" (15/17/19)

Head Angle
66deg
67deg
67deg
67.8deg







Seat Angle
72.25deg
73.25deg
73.25deg
72.3deg







BB height
12.5"
13.9"
14.75"
14.2"







Top Tube length
23.5"/24.5"
23.5"/24.5"
23.5"/24.5"
22.4/ 23.7/ 24.5







Wheelbase
45.7"/46.7"
46.0"/47.0"
46.2"/47.2"
43.5/ 44.7/ 45.5







Stand over
27.25"
28.5"
29.5"
29.2"/29.2"/29.5"







Chainstay:
17.7"
17.5"
17.4"
16.9"







Head Tube Length
5.0"/5.5"
5.0"/5.5"
5.0"/5.5"
4.0"/ 4.75"/ 5.0"







Fork Length
20.5"(520mm) Pike/Fox36
21.5"(546mm) Fox40-7"
22.5"(571mm) Fox40-8"
20.5"(495mm)





26.6"dia

Wheel Diameter
27"
27"
27"
7.875" x 2.25"







Shock Length
7.875" x 2.0"
8.5 x 2.5"
8.75 x 2.75"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
I can tell you that there is no way this bike will last with a 40% sag setup with me riding it. If I switch my 8.75 and put the 550lb spring on it, it gives me right at 30-34% sag and I can push it to the bottom out on this roller jump that was on the race run. It's about a 2ft roller that sends me in the air about 3-4 ft at 20mph, and lands on flat section of trial right after the jump. The bike bottomed out every time I hit it at speed with DHX set with two turns of bottom out and 200lb of pressure.

My perception and what I love about my Ellsworth is that the suspension is more linear in travel and does not progress very much as it compresses(maybe my perception is skewed). I would love to see the curves on ICT and FSR. This allows me to use full travel and keeps the bike from feeling harsh when you get into the rough sections. I have a 9inch travel FSR rear suspended bike is progressive It's super soft at the beginning of the travel and doesn't bottom with me riding a 450lb spring at 35% sag on free-ride trails that drop 4ft to flat with no speed. I'm still waiting to get this bike on the downhill trails, but I'm going to guess that it will be great on most of the trail, but will get harsh in the large rock gardens.

If I put the rogue down to 500lb spring to achieve 40% sag, I would no doubt end up breaking the frame on my downhill trails. I guess if your trails don't have you leaving the ground at all, then 40% would work great.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
915 Posts
?? no need for insults. My trails include world cup race courses, Fort Bill, Champery, Les Gets as well as some very tech bike parks both in the UK and Alps. Plenty of tech sections and small drops such as those you describe.

Its just theory anyway and it is not even mine.

Ells recommend 40% for this frame not me. 40% is kind of standard for a gravity bike with that much travel. If it has the right sag but blows through the travel and bottoms out too easy it it may be tune of the compresion that needs attention. As I am heavy I have to have the DHX tuned for my weight (by MOJO) otherwise I get the same problem.

I would be running a 550lb spring for the same sag.

(please note as i said earlier this is just theory and I am more interested in your real world testing than any manufacturers spiel)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
There wasn't any insult intended, just trying to give first hand information that I have experimented with on the bike.

Hopefully my tid-bits helped out whomever is getting ready to build one up. Good luck with the build and I'm sure you will love the bike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
915 Posts
Actually your advice is very useful.

I think if i decide to upgrade my shock i would go for the 8.5 x 2.5. 7(.5) inches is more than enough travel for my useage and the static geometry looks great (on paper) and yours (and others) first hand actual ride experiences back it up.

I like the look of the DHX4 as it has high and low speed compresion adjustment and a bottom out that is indepedant of any platform damping.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
rider weight.

I can tell you that there is no way this bike will last with a 40% sag setup with me riding it. If I switch my 8.75 and put the 550lb spring on it, it gives me right at 30-34% sag and I can push it to the bottom out on this roller jump that was on the race run. It's about a 2ft roller that sends me in the air about 3-4 ft at 20mph, and lands on flat section of trial right after the jump. The bike bottomed out every time I hit it at speed with DHX set with two turns of bottom out and 200lb of pressure.

My perception and what I love about my Ellsworth is that the suspension is more linear in travel and does not progress very much as it compresses(maybe my perception is skewed). I would love to see the curves on ICT and FSR. This allows me to use full travel and keeps the bike from feeling harsh when you get into the rough sections. I have a 9inch travel FSR rear suspended bike is progressive It's super soft at the beginning of the travel and doesn't bottom with me riding a 450lb spring at 35% sag on free-ride trails that drop 4ft to flat with no speed. I'm still waiting to get this bike on the downhill trails, but I'm going to guess that it will be great on most of the trail, but will get harsh in the large rock gardens.

If I put the rogue down to 500lb spring to achieve 40% sag, I would no doubt end up breaking the frame on my downhill trails. I guess if your trails don't have you leaving the ground at all, then 40% would work great.
hey Calvin.
How much do you weigh geared up? I'm around 215# average geared up ~ could you rec' a springrate for that?

Thanks!
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top