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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys,

I'm in the proces having a Seven Sola 29er build.
But I'm in discussion with them on the chainstaylength.

They advice a chainstay of 18,18"(461mm), but I like to have a shorter one the keep the bike lively. More like 450 mm or even shorter. They say shorter will give problems with the front derr. and tire clearence. I'm afraid the bike bike gets too plump and slow.

Do any you have any experience ith this on a Ti 29er? Or even a Seven 29er?

Thanks!

Regards Rolfo
 

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Fo' Bidniz in da haus
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rolfo said:
Hi Guys,

I'm in the proces having a Seven Sola 29er build.
But I'm in discussion with them on the chainstaylength.

They advice a chainstay of 18,18"(461mm), but I like to have a shorter one the keep the bike lively. More like 450 mm or even shorter. They say shorter will give problems with the front derr. and tire clearence. I'm afraid the bike bike gets too plump and slow.

Do any you have any experience ith this on a Ti 29er? Or even a Seven 29er?

Thanks!

Regards Rolfo
souinds like they need to give more effort to be more creative? i am no frame builder but given there are frames out there that do address the front der consideration seems a weak argument. heck, as one example, send em a link to the new sweet banshee paradox with its 16.9 stays which runs a front der.

granted i dont have front der as i went hammerschmidt, and wouldnt change that parameter for anything, my Ti 29er hardtail has a 17.1 chainstay length. granted with the current huge 2.4 ardent i can only safely run it at 17.5" from a clearance perspective, its awesome...in part, i think the wider 73mm BB helps

bend seat tubes and other things peole more knowledgeable than i can add no doubt should at least be put on the table by the builder..doesnt sound right as a generalization, its your coin
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Lynskey

Hmm... Lynskey claims a 17.1"(434mm) chainstay length on their Pro29er http://www.lynskeyperformance.com/a/...pro29-2010.php and on the Ridgeline29 http://www.lynskeyperformance.com/a/...dgeline-29.php

I know, but I read somewhere on this forum, that these are the minimal sizes with the sliding dropouts and there are indeed problems with such short chainstays concidering the tire clearence and the fr.derr.

With moots there is a chainstay of 17.7", I saw that the tire clearence is also minimal with a 2.4 tire..So not every manuafctures is very open on this subject.

Thanks for the replies:)

Regards Rolfo
 

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rolfo said:
Hmm... Lynskey claims a 17.1"(434mm) chainstay length on their Pro29er http://www.lynskeyperformance.com/a/...pro29-2010.php and on the Ridgeline29 http://www.lynskeyperformance.com/a/...dgeline-29.php

I know, but I read somewhere on this forum, that these are the minimal sizes with the sliding dropouts and there are indeed problems with such short chainstays concidering the tire clearence and the fr.derr.

With moots there is a chainstay of 17.7", I saw that the tire clearence is also minimal with a 2.4 tire..So not every manuafctures is very open on this subject.

Thanks for the replies:)

Regards Rolfo
True on the Ridgelines. On the "VF" version or "geared only" if you will, chainstay length is 17.5 with no front derailler shifting problems and good tire clearance.

Unless you heavily manipulate the the tubes at the bb you will limit proper tire size and derailler clearance for sure.
That being said, my Ridgeline is quite lively with 17.5 chainstays.
I also do not understand this obsession with 26" wheel short chainstays on 29ers.
 

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I really think the OP is just doubting the "required" 18.18" chainstay length that Seven is initially recommending. That length is far outside the realm of reasonable for a hardtail, unless he is having a custom FS built.

I agree that anything shorter than 17" for 29ers is a little on the crazy side. I have ridden a couple with chainstays that short, and they didn't ride well for my style. That being said a close friend just had an Eriksen built around a 440mm chainstay length which clears a Racing Ralph 2.4 with about 3mm of room to spare on each side with the sliders all the way forward. Kent even speced a 68mm BB shell. Much shorter than that, and the builder would have to start getting creative or modifying tubes.

If you needed/wanted to go much shorter with the chainstays while maintaining tire clearance, the builder would probably have to use a 73mm shell to push the chainstays out. That could compromise chainring clearance outside of standard triple dimensions without using some kind of manipulated tube or chainstay yoke.
 

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Direct mount, baby!

The new Shimano direct mount front derailleurs *mostly* solve the derailleur/tire interference problem. Ask the 7 folks about using one of them. The mount can be installed independent of the precise seat tube angle/location, so you can offset the seat tube to keep it away from the tire as well.

The tire/chainring/chainstay clearance is the limiting factor, but it's easy to build a 435mm chainstay hardtail that will clear reasonably big tires. If you start getting crazy and/or can make some gearing compromises, you can get down to 425 or even shorter.

Keep in mind that I'm not trying to say that 460mm is wrong for you - the "best" chainstay length depends on your riding style, size/shape, and local terrain. It's a complicated question, and shorter isn't always better. If Seven is claiming, however, that they can't go shorter than 460mm, they are full of it.

Edit: Here's a quick writeup I did on the direct mount (this is a steel bike, so the mount would be different, but it'll give you the idea): http://waltworks.blogspot.com/2009/12/direct-mount-part-2.html

-Walt
 

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Sliding dropouts

I've got Paragon sliding dropouts on my Kish. As a geared bike, I'm currently running the chainstays @ 17 3/8". The range of adjustment is 17 1/4 to 17 3/4 inches. It has a 68mm shell, clears 20/30/40 chainrings w/111 BB spindle comfortably, and there are no tire or derailleur clearance issues.

I suppose if it were me, I'd ask Seven what and why they're spec'ing that chainstay length. Good luck w/your new frame!
 

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jms said:
I've got Paragon sliding dropouts on my Kish. As a geared bike, I'm currently running the chainstays @ 17 3/8". The range of adjustment is 17 1/4 to 17 3/4 inches. It has a 68mm shell, clears 20/30/40 chainrings w/111 BB spindle comfortably, and there are no tire or derailleur clearance issues.

I suppose if were me, I'd ask Seven what and why they're spec'ing that chainstay length. Good luck w/your new frame!
my slider equipped ti quiring is just about the same as well....17 1/4 to about 17 3/4". i do not have monster tire clearance when the sliders are way forward....i usually run a 1.9 though. when i had the bike set up with gears, i set the sliders at 17.5 and had no crank/f. der clearance problems.

not trying to compare my quiring to a seven.....but i absoutely love the bike....and i had (and sold) a $3000+ titus exogrid hardtail frame....

walt gave you some great info above.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Response

Thanks guys for you're massive response!:thumbsup:

Now I know I don't have such a strange wish for my seven sola...

Info: I'm 176 cm with an seat of 747mm (center BB to top of saddle).
I ride mostly local singletrack, here in Holland.
So not a lot of downhilling here;)
 

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Both Ti BlackSheep 29ers of mine had 17.3 chainstays, but no front der. I run 2.55 WW no problem.
Seems direct mount would work.
 

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In my experience, based on the Seven frames I've ridden locally (owned by friends of mine), Seven likes longer chainstays. Personally, I think their bikes ride a little sluggish b/c of it also. I'm not part of the "you have to have the shortest stays possible" camp, but I don't like overly long stays either. Some people think 17.75" is long.

I've got 17.75" stays on both of my 29ers, and I don't have any derailleur problems on either bike. If you get shorter than 17.5", you so start to get into the area where you have problems, but 17.75" is easy to do and still have pretty good tire and chainring clearance for a Rampage sized tire and a 32 or 34t ring (and not run the tire into the deraillleur).
 

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Fo' Bidniz in da haus
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Francis Buxton said:
In my experience, based on the Seven frames I've ridden locally (owned by friends of mine), Seven likes longer chainstays. Personally, I think their bikes ride a little sluggish b/c of it also. I'm not part of the "you have to have the shortest stays possible" camp, but I don't like overly long stays either. Some people think 17.75" is long.

I've got 17.75" stays on both of my 29ers, and I don't have any derailleur problems on either bike. If you get shorter than 17.5", you so start to get into the area where you have problems, but 17.75" is easy to do and still have pretty good tire and chainring clearance for a Rampage sized tire and a 32 or 34t ring (and not run the tire into the deraillleur).
agreed....shorter is only unambiguously better for e-riding.

since i dont ride trails and actually ride up, down, on varied terrain i have NO IDEA what my "optimal" CS length would be, not to mention its only one of many parametes. Having said that, 17.5" seems about ride overall for me, and thats with 2.4 Ardents which are both wide and tall, both contributing to limiting how far forward wheel can go. Only thing i wouldnt like if I were the OP is that the option is not being presented to do shorter which sounds weak.
 

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Like Fo said, here is the back end of a Banshee Paradox with its 16.9" chainstays and a WTB Stout.

Ronnie.
 

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The Anti Bling said:
nice ronnie! is that your bike?
No, it's a factory bike but I'm in the process of building mine as we speak. It's all done except for the wheels which Brown Santa says should be here this afternoon.:D I'll post a thread when I'm done.

Ronnie.
 

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I used to have a Sola with the 18" chainstays and thought it required a lot if work on singletrack. That being said, rolling fire roads are a blast. It was also ver stable at high speeds. I just pulled the trigger on a Black Cat. So , I am leaning towards the short chainstay camp
 

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Nice sparkie, I was just going to say that Black Cat offers up some very short stays. Mine are at about 16 5/8" right now with a Racing Ralph 2.25 tire. Short stays work great on 29ers in my opinion.

Cheers
 

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Personally- i feel you should try and ascertain what you liked about previous 26" bikes youve owned relative to their chainstay lengths.

Jumping to a 29er with an 18" stay is going to elicit a vastly different ride quality than your previous 26er if it has the usual 16.75-17" stay.

Overall if you like the overall wheelbase and handling characteristics of your previous 26rides.......you probably want to stick fairly close to that overall wheelbase if possible.

Ive had a Seven duo-w/ 17.8" rear stays.....on a 26er and 29er both and felt that there was quite a bit of noticable flex compared to my shorter stayed steel IF SS.and Bystickel in the 16.5" range.(both 26ers)

To me the overall wheelbase is what really effects handling characteristics more-so than length of front end or rear end..........thats the number to be really concerned with (especially if you like the handling of previous 26" frames youve had).......OTOH---if you are coming to them with little input on previous ride characteristics/measures----they are going to go with a cookie cutter nice fit for your size.
 
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