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Village Dirtbag
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Ibex does the same thing, and they're a U.S. vendor.

The big difference between buying a bike and a computer site unseen is that you need to test the fit of a bike to be sure it is suitable. You also have to decide if the suspension design is what you want- there are no firm specs as on a computer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
@dam said:
Ibex does the same thing, and they're a U.S. vendor.

The big difference between buying a bike and a computer site unseen is that you need to test the fit of a bike to be sure it is suitable. You also have to decide if the suspension design is what you want- there are no firm specs as on a computer.
price gaps are so huge people doesn't really care, but they ask you for your body measures to adjust stems and cranksets, and the suspension design they use is the tried and true 4bar linkage and FSR for the Torque, mags here rave about their frames. Anyway, they started like a small german vendor and now they sell to all Europe. Which other brand can offer you a 160mm enduro bike, full X.0 and XTR, DT Swiss and, Talas 36 for 3000€?
 

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Gear Whore
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Airborne as well here...have not heard much from them lately though. I am a computer guy as well and have NO problem about buying computer stuff online (ncix.com), I even bought my last bike from the guys at Transition without even riding one....but overall people like to kick the tires as it where...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
mbmojo said:
What's with all the freaking spam here latey?
first I'm from Spain, that company is from Germany... second, 90% of people here is from the US, if you wanted to buy those bikes you would be forced to pay a 30% more plus the shipping so I don't really think Canyon has a bright future in the US. I just thought some people would be interested to know how the market is in Europe.

If you think it carefully you'll see it's not spam at all.
 

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OOOOOOOh Gee Are Eee
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Pricey?

acelp11 said:
Check out their bikes, in the price/quality relation there's probably nothing better in the whole world.
I don't know how much bikes sell for over the pond but 3,000 pounds (= $5,671.2) for a 4" travel FSR based bike seems pretty pricey to me, you can get most high end bikes (titus, ellsworth, intense) in the US from a full service shop for that amount. VAT is included in the pricing so that screws things up a bit though.
 

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Village Dirtbag
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It was 3k Euros- not pounds. That is still almost $4000! Doesn't seem like such a deal to me. Santa Cruz and Specialized have prices not far off from that, let alone Ibex!
 

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No. Just No.
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Canyon is totally going after Scott. The division of models in the line and the component specs are eerily similar. Scott is the 800lb gorilla in Europe, so it makes perfect sense for Canyon to try to offer similar product, but on a lower-cost direct model, as their differentiator to gain market traction.
 

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Paper or plastic?
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CraigH said:
Actually, that is the symbol for a Euro dollar.

Last time I looked (2002) a Euro dollar & a US dollar were close in value.
From Wikipedia:
Eurodollars are deposits denominated in United States dollar at banks outside the United States, and thus are not under the jurisdiction of the Federal Reserve. Consequently, such deposits are subject to much less regulation than similar deposits within the United States, allowing for higher margins.

Historically, such deposits were held mostly by European banks and financial institutions, and thus became known as "eurodollars". As of April 2006, China holds the largest foreign exchange reserves, much of which are denominated in US currency. Such deposits are now available in many countries worldwide, but they continue to be referred to as "eurodollars" regardless of the location.

The term eurodollar is commonly confused in the USA with the joint European currency, the Euro. :)

As for Canyon prices, they probably include VAT, which runs around 15% of the total price.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
@dam said:
It was 3k Euros- not pounds. That is still almost $4000! Doesn't seem like such a deal to me. Santa Cruz and Specialized have prices not far off from that, let alone Ibex!
yeah but that's considering the exchange rate, in the US the Canyon Torque Limited would be priced arround 3000$ and take a look at the components,

Rear Shock Fox DHX Air 5.0
Fork FOX 36 Talas RC2
Rear Derailleur SRAM X.0
Front Derailleur Deore XT E BB Assembly
Shifters SRAM X.0 Trigger
Brakes Avid Juicy 7 203/185
Hubs DT Swiss 340/240
Cassette Shimano Deore XT 11-34
Rims DT Swiss 5.1d
Tires Schwalbe Fat Albert 2.35
cranks Shimano XTR Hollowtech II
Chainrings 44/32/22
Bottom Bracket Shimano XTR
Stem Syntace Superforce
Handle bar Syntace Vector Lowrider 2014
Saddle Selle Italia SLR T1
Seat post Syntace P6 Carbon

I tell you that there's nothing with this price/quality relation, at least in Europe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Circlip said:
Canyon is totally going after Scott. The division of models in the line and the component specs are eerily similar. Scott is the 800lb gorilla in Europe, so it makes perfect sense for Canyon to try to offer similar product, but on a lower-cost direct model, as their differentiator to gain market traction.
I don't think so, Canyon is miles ahead of Scott in terms components and prices, and the frames are very different, Scott has no 4 bars linkages or FSR's.

I don't understand what 800lb gorilla means but if you're suggesting that they are best sellers or something it's not true, Specialized or Trek sell a lot more here.
 

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-arschloch-
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acelp11 said:
here in Europe this bike: http://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes/equipment.html?b=29#equipment is cheaper than a custom full XT Heckler with a Pike. It's normal they are taking over the market.
the canyon bikes that i have seen up close and personal looked awful. a turd with a bunch of nice parts hung on it is still a turd.

i'd take a chaka or a CMP (other inexpensive german brands) any day over a canyon. blech.

oh and by the way, "taking over the market"? puhleaze! I knew a lot of riders when i was living and riding europe. no decent rider with any self-respect would be caught dead on a canyon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
chuffer said:
no decent rider with any self-respect would be caught dead on a canyon.
:rolleyes: :skep:

do american mags have frame stressing devices? Canyon frames analized were among the strongest, both in the crankset zone and direction, you know how obssesive germans are when it comes to testing?

I don't want to start a fight here but their bikes are amazing, of course everyone is entitled to an opinion, but lbs/ft of pressure don't lie.

and they look great to me ;)

 

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No. Just No.
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acelp11 said:
I don't think so, Canyon is miles ahead of Scott in terms components and prices, and the frames are very different, Scott has no 4 bars linkages or FSR's.
Incorrect. Scott's entire Genius RC and Genuis MC lines are Horst Link designs, which is the defining feature of FSR.
 

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No. Instead of relying on magazines, our manufacturers pay firms who specialize in FEA to do it with them. The accuracy and relevancy of the specific biketest.de tests have been rightly exposed as being suspect.
In the old days, "testing" meant putting some people on the product and sending them off down the trail. It hasn't been that way for a long time. What happened? Everyone broke all that ultralight crap. CNC'd crapsticks, like Tune & Extralight are making now, machined out of 7075 billet, usually taking parts from the soft core. Since then, Product Liability Insurance is the biggest driving force behind every aspect of any American Bike Companies product. Are products "tested"? Yes. And not by bike companies. By testing companies, who specialize in simulating conditions properly. Frames, components, accessories, you name it. It's not unusual for the Liability insurance per part to hit 30% of the wholesale cost of the part. In those cases, the insurance company stands to make the largest amount of profit that product generates. What does this mean? To keep that percentage down, we have to prove that the products are safe. We do this by not touching the stuff ourselves. We're a bike company, not a product testing labratory. You get a specialist to do that if you want it done right. And the insurance companies want it done right. Everyone tests their products. Often, test results are garbage, due to an astronomical number of variables. The German biketest tests are typically performed on a single unit, often rushed, and often entirely inappropriate. Each of these flaws produces garbage data. This has been covered over and over. If it's not obvious how each of these flaws arise & what effect they have on the results, it can be found talking to any manufacturer, & writeups can be found all over the net. Don at Anvil has a quick synopsis on his site, off the top of my head.
It's late, and I'm tired as hell.

But first, Horst Lietner was a smart guy. His famed pivot is a nice, inexpensive, effective way of getting the job done. There are many ways to accomplish the job though. The manner in which the licenses to its use were yanked nearly bankrupted a host of smaller, high-end builders. I never thought I'd be glad to see Horst's lovely pivot made obsolete, but the VPP pioneered by Outland and others offers a greater range of performance options, and most importantly, freedom, for both framebuilders & riders. Sadly, we'll continue to watch as the real estate of the bike frame (to put a pivot in) is once again claimed and purchased in small chunks, until it's gone, and everyone will again find themselves pointing lawyers at each other, attempting to drive each other out of their territory. In the end they'll piss away each others paltry earnings on attourneys. Again. What a sad, strange little industry sometimes.
 

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my Canyon

I have to say that Canyon makes great bikes. I have a Canyon for 4 months now and it is a perfect bike. It is a hardtail so there is les to do wrong than on a fs.
And the price is amazing. There are few brands that can compete with this price here in europe. Maybe a Decathlon. But also Canyon has a great service, and fast delivery.

Here is a pic of my bike. A full race ht. In this setup it cost me 2000 euro.That includes a 1000 euro F80X!
 
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