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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been struggling for weeks now trying to dial in my lyrik with the rc2 damper. i'm about 73kg with all my riding gear on and rockshox recommend 78psi. I've tried 75ish and it just feels unsupportive and tiring when it gets rough, it also deflects me a fair amount as well. the sweet spot for me seems to be around 60-65 at this pressure i feel like i can corner much faster and just overall feel like i have more grip and control but it bottoms out lots and still feels a bit wallowy and divey when it gets steep and rough and works through the travel bogging me down. 70psi may be the sweet spot for me but i just cant help but think is there something wrong with my fork when i see so many people running much higher pressures in there lyrik without complaints, I couldn't even imagine riding with 80-90psi. I'd say i ride fairly hard as well large gap jumps, rock gardens and drops
im currently running x1 token.

Any ideas??
 

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1. what travel, which Debonair version?
2. with lower pressure, you will have to adjust to faster rebound
3. recommendation is a starting point, with lower pressure you need more tokens
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
1. what travel, which Debonair version?
2. with lower pressure, you will have to adjust to faster rebound
3. recommendation is a starting point, with lower pressure you need more tokens
160mm 2021 Debonair. I have adjusted to faster rebounds, generally makes things more unstable.
 

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Don’t compare your set up to others, if it feels good just run with it.

Debonair C1 forks often feel better with less pressure than an equivalent B1 fork, and different styles suit different spring rates. 70psi is fine
 

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That's because your damper is both harsh and lacks support. Your spring-rate is about right but the damper is letting you down.

Everyone who rides a stock lyrik hard is relying almost totally on the air spring.
 

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I was about to mention using natural frequency and feel to tune but @Dougal has already chimed in. I've all but ignored any recommended settings. After setting it up by feel I connected a shockwiz out of curiosity and gives me almost perfect scores other than wanting me to soften hsc beyond what the fork allows.

@Dougal I'd love to hear your take and recommendations on the different dampers available and the best ways to get the most out of them.
 

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160mm 2021 Debonair. I have adjusted to faster rebounds, generally makes things more unstable.
Just guessing - try to reduce the volume of the negative chamber, e. g. with some thick grease, just for testing.

This led me to use the Soloair shaft, which made the fork much better rideable on more brutal tracks, because that unstable flubbery feeling was gone. I found there was too much movement in the front with the Debonair B on midsize hits and brake bumps, with Soloair it is better - but that comfy feeling over minor roots and rocks is missing.

I ride hsc 1-2 clicks from closed and lsc as open as it gets (my fork has some stiction). It is not great, but ok.
 

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I was about to mention using natural frequency and feel to tune but @Dougal has already chimed in. I've all but ignored any recommended settings. After setting it up by feel I connected a shockwiz out of curiosity and gives me almost perfect scores other than wanting me to soften hsc beyond what the fork allows.

@Dougal I'd love to hear your take and recommendations on the different dampers available and the best ways to get the most out of them.
The Charger dampers (and GRIP dampers) all suffer from midvalve harshness. To compensate for this Rockshox have reduced compression damping well below useful levels. Each generation of Charger got less compression damping than before. The result is a damper that runs rough on chunky ground but also lacks support and blows through travel.

The only way to fix it is modification to fix the midvalve flow issues and then revalve to give the compression and rebound damping that's suitable.
 

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I run pretty much all the clicks on a 2021 lyrik to hold it up. I thought I was in some no-mans land of setup but Dougals first hand knowledge seems to support (get it?) my experience.

Rant: I really am sick of the recreational MTB world of products, all bullshit and no numbers. I'm perfectly capable of reading graphs, I want to see lines with newtons, rates and what not published for every product. Couple actual numbers with even a modicum of rider experience and you'd know roughly the numbers and characteristics you'd be chasing for a given application.
It is real stupid. I mean, for any industrial engineering product data like this is provided.
**** me.

And don't even start on the "well most riders would just be confused..." line. Such data can easily be ignored by those types, however procuring the data for those interested is almost practically impossible.

As an alternative for the OP, more pushups?
 

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I'd agree with this from @Dougal.

Granted everyone has a personal and therefore different experience with suspension, but I found on two of their latest dampers including the RC2 that the damper doesn't do much.

After fitting a Push HC97 it is significantly better. Supple, supportive, plush and responsive to big / hard hits. $$$ but well worth the investment given my higher weight.

Drop the pressure and then add spacers as required.
Would a different weight of oil help?
 

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I run pretty much all the clicks on a 2021 lyrik to hold it up. I thought I was in some no-mans land of setup but Dougals first hand knowledge seems to support (get it?) my experience.

Rant: I really am sick of the recreational MTB world of products, all bullshit and no numbers. I'm perfectly capable of reading graphs, I want to see lines with newtons, rates and what not published for every product.
I'm working on a simple way to publish repeatable numbers for shocks and forks to quantify factory tunes. But it's a lot of work and will take me a while.

Even with automotive the numbers generally don't exist. Bilstein publish damping force on compression/rebound for some of their products. But generally only where they have several competing tunes so the customer can tell.
 

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I'd agree with this from @Dougal.

Granted everyone has a personal and therefore different experience with suspension, but I found on two of their latest dampers including the RC2 that the damper doesn't do much.

After fitting a Push HC97 it is significantly better. Supple, supportive, plush and responsive to big / hard hits. $$$ but well worth the investment given my higher weight.

Drop the pressure and then add spacers as required.
Would a different weight of oil help?
Thicker oil will increase the harshness you get from the mid-valve but do nothing to add more support to the shims. The reason is oil creates more damping in the ports, and the midvalve has the highest oil velocity in it's ports, but shims react to pressure and aren't sensitive to oil viscosity untill it becomes really thick.

The HC97 has more damping than anyone needs. It's on par with the Charger 1 RC. The Charger 1 RC had the issue of a very firm shim stack and a big bypass around it. Opening up the bypass more causes the fork to spike as the bypass chokes on fast hits, but also wallow as you got very little damping for slow movements.
 

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I'm working on a simple way to publish repeatable numbers for shocks and forks to quantify factory tunes. But it's a lot of work and will take me a while.
That indeed sounds like a truely massive undertaking. It's probably worth nothing coming from some anon on the 'net, but that would be a huge contribution to the 'community' (ugh just typing 'community' made me throw up a little). I imagine the speed at which things are outdated, updated, and 'upgraded' by MFGs is a big hurdle in keeping such a database relevant. Then there's the shear number of possible combinations.... I can hear it now "oi do a 2009 Fox 35 with a Jeff Stevens (TM) cartridge running an RS airspring modded with extra speed holes in a 24 and 24/16ths wheel chassis in high humidity but low temp conditions". shudder

I do feel that the MFGs should be compelled to provide some basic benchmark data, and maybe they do for service centres ¯\(ツ)/¯ . For a fork let's say spring force vs displacement and damping force over a range of reasonable velocities for extrema and middle settings would be sufficient for Joe blow. It doesn't have to provide the data for every conceivable loading condition, just some baselines to inform DIY rider setup and purchasing. Ulike proper research and investigation done by tuners, understanding would not be the goal here.
For example the Manitou tuning guide for the ABS+ is absolutely fantastic.

Actually, a colleague did a similar thing in the world of computational chemistry: a simple web accessible database of standardised observables calculated via atomistic simulations of carbon materials for the various descriptions of carbon interactions (i.e. non-quantum or analytic potentials) available.
 

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I dont feel that the C1 head on the latest Lyrik is all that bad

Im around 85kgs and run at my riding weight or -5-10% depending on the season. My current summer setup 2 tokens, HSC 2 from open, LSC 3-4 from open and rebound in the middle, as things get wetter and the trail speeds drop, I wind off HSC and drop pressure

Its been a while since I rode a Grip2...but I dont recall it being hands down better or worse
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Just an update all. Removed the x1 spacer in the fork now running zero. Pumped the psi to about 75psi, 1 click hsc and 4 clicks lsc and feels like a new fork. Super supportive all around, crazy small bump sensitivity and now big hits aren't jarring at all. Highly recommend
 
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