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Can't eliminate play in King SS rear hub

918 Views 7 Replies 4 Participants Last post by meltingfeather, Nov 11, 2009

elgordo

Discussion Starter · Jul 3, 2009

I have searched, spoken with King and have not been able to solve the problem so I thought I would throw it out here to everyone.

Recently I serviced my King SS rear hub at a friends shop. I used the King hub tool and all the appropriate lubes (i.e., ring drive and tri-flow).

I extracted the bearings (both drive side and non) and everything seemed to go OK with the exception of the non-drive side bearing. While extracting the bearing it seemed the expander ring was not fully expanded and the bearing was pulled out of the hub by the inner race. This seized the bearing, however my friend tapped the inner race with a rubber mallet and walla it was free but with a considerable amount of play.

I lubed and reassembled everything (in the proper sequence=been through this a hundred times with king).

Its has the single axle so I tighten the threader ring on the non drive side finger tight so that its snug put the wheel in the frame and when I check for play there is a ton of play and almost a knocking from side to side.........

The only thing I can come up with is that the play in the inner race of the non-drive side bearings is allowing the adjustment ring to bottom out on the threads before really compressing the bearings?

However King didn't seem to think that bearing play would be a big deal. Any thoughts????!?!? :madman: :madman: :madman:

Oh forgot to mention I have a new bearing on the way but it seems that a short legged man is walking it from OR to PA

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Johnny Chicken Bones

· #2 · Nov 11, 2009

You've probably solved this problem since frigging July when you posted it but...

I've had problems w/ various King hubs over the years. My own and customers. If you run a highish spoke tension it can actually stretch the King hub shell making it always feel loose. No matter how you perform a bearing adjust it'll always feel loose.

Out of frustration I spoke w/ King (this was in about... oh... I'd say 2002 or so) and they told me of the stretch problem. They have bearings that are just barely larger. By like a 1000 of an inch or so.

I sent the hub back, they pressed a larger bearing in and everything was all set.
Now as a fix for this problem- and other King issues- I just use DT 240s.

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shiggy

· #3 · Nov 11, 2009

Johnny Chicken Bones said:
You've probably solved this problem since frigging July when you posted it but...

I've had problems w/ various King hubs over the years. My own and customers. If you run a highish spoke tension it can actually stretch the King hub shell making it always feel loose. No matter how you perform a bearing adjust it'll always feel loose.

Out of frustration I spoke w/ King (this was in about... oh... I'd say 2002 or so) and they told me of the stretch problem. They have bearings that are just barely larger. By like a 1000 of an inch or so.

I sent the hub back, they pressed a larger bearing in and everything was all set.
Now as a fix for this problem- and other King issues- I just use DT 240s.

Interesting. DT uses separate spoke flanges on their new Tricon hubs/wheels so they can use higher spoke tension without affecting the bearings.

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elgordo

Discussion Starter · #4 · Nov 11, 2009

Thanks for the reply.

After many conversations with King there was no clear resolution. King wanted me to send the hub in but since its my only SS hub I did not want to pull the bike out of service for the dog days of summer.

What has seemed to work is just to tighten the adjustment ring with the 2.5mm allen. Not wailing on it ... just a little extra than can be achieved via your hand. Which by the way is not much since its awkward and very smooth. The down side of this is that I see a little more drag in the rear wheel bearings. I.e., will drive my ENO/Phil Wood crank and bottom bracket.

Perhaps this winter I will send it back to king.

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meltingfeather

· #5 · Nov 11, 2009

Johnny Chicken Bones said:
You've probably solved this problem since frigging July when you posted it but...

I've had problems w/ various King hubs over the years. My own and customers. If you run a highish spoke tension it can actually stretch the King hub shell making it always feel loose. No matter how you perform a bearing adjust it'll always feel loose.

Out of frustration I spoke w/ King (this was in about... oh... I'd say 2002 or so) and they told me of the stretch problem. They have bearings that are just barely larger. By like a 1000 of an inch or so.

I sent the hub back, they pressed a larger bearing in and everything was all set.
Now as a fix for this problem- and other King issues- I just use DT 240s.

Interesting. What is "highish" spoke tension and how were the wheels laced?

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meltingfeather

· #6 · Nov 11, 2009

shiggy said:
Interesting. DT uses separate spoke flanges on their new Tricon hubs/wheels so they can use higher spoke tension without affecting the bearings.

I can see it being much more of a problem with low-spoke-count wheels laced crow's foot (low and no cross). I'll have to think about how separation of the spoke flanges would lower hub strain. Not saying it ain't so, I just don't get it yet. One possibility is that the super thick flanges were used to reduce strain and the material in between was removed for weight savings.

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elgordo

Discussion Starter · #7 · Nov 11, 2009

meltingfeather said:
Interesting. What is "highish" spoke tension and how were the wheels laced?

*
Well, I've got the King hub laced to a Flow rim and my wheel builder told me that he watches the tension closely on Stans and Flows because the spoke tension is not suppose to exceed 100 kg of force which I've been lead to believe is fairly low ......

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meltingfeather

· #8 · Nov 11, 2009

elgordo said:
*
Well, I've got the King hub laced to a Flow rim and my wheel builder told me that he watches the tension closely on Stans and Flows because the spoke tension is not suppose to exceed 100 kg of force which I've been lead to believe is fairly low ......

My question was for Johnny Chicken Bones because I was curious how much tension is "highish" enough to get a King hub unadjustably distorted. It's not likely to affect me because I build my wheels to mfr specs (+/- a few percent).
You're right: rim manufacturers specify maximum spoke tension, though many wheelbuilders disregard mfr specs. Within spec is best IMO, because the rim mfr knows their rims best, has likely tested to failure, and would want to spec as high as is reasonable so people don't build weak wheels and blame it on the rims-- but to each his own. 100kgf is reasonable (not high or super low). The 355 29er has a low-end spec of 82kgf. Most specs are max tension, so for them to have a range is a bit odd. The highest common specs you'll see from most rim manufacturers for 32h wheels is about 120kgf, and not many spec that high... there's no real reason to and you risk premature rim fatigue and cracking.

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