[MoeChedda]

Wassup ya'll.

In a slight dilemna here -- kinda got a wild hair up my a$$ in the last couple of weeks and bought two used bikes: a 2003 Cannondale Gemini 1000 and a 2001 Intense Uzzi SLX. I had sold my old Sugar because I wanted more travel and just a burlier bike. I do aggressive x-country and occassional freeriding.

So I buy the Gemini because I read that it's free-ride and aggressive x-country bike depending on setup. I love it -- but then I happen upon an oppty for an Intense from a desparate seller. So I jump on it thinking I'd sell the Gemini and keep the Uzzi. But truthfully I almost think I like the Gemini better. Weight has something to do with it: the Uzzi is about 7lbs heavier and it's noticeable -- don't get me wrong, the Gemini is no lightweight. The Gemini weighs about 35lbs while the Uzzi is in it's 40lbs.

But I can't keep both -- obviously it wouldn't make sense to anyways since they're intended for the same rider -- plus my wife says I have to sell one.

As far as components, each has it's own advantages:

A big issue is the size: Although medium normally fits me, the Uzzi has a pretty high standover, especially with the Boxxer fork. While the Gemini has a much better standover with the Sherman fork. But the Uzzi has a better drivetrain (XTR) and the Gemini has the massive 1.5 steerer with cool-a$$ Diabolique headset. I know both frames are great -- probably the Intense might be better. But the Gemini is newer.

Here's what I want: a bike that I can go anywhere and still climb -- there's a lot of climbing here in Southern Cali. I also want a bike that's going to last and give me the least amount of trouble.

What do ya'll think -- anyone with experience with either that can shed some light?

Peace,
Moe

 

[TNC]

On that 7lb. difference.

Wassup ya'll.

In a slight dilemna here -- kinda got a wild hair up my a$$ in the last couple of weeks and bought two used bikes: a 2003 Cannondale Gemini 1000 and a 2001 Intense Uzzi SLX. I had sold my old Sugar because I wanted more travel and just a burlier bike. I do aggressive x-country and occassional freeriding.

So I buy the Gemini because I read that it's free-ride and aggressive x-country bike depending on setup. I love it -- but then I happen upon an oppty for an Intense from a desparate seller. So I jump on it thinking I'd sell the Gemini and keep the Uzzi. But truthfully I almost think I like the Gemini better. Weight has something to do with it: the Uzzi is about 7lbs heavier and it's noticeable -- don't get me wrong, the Gemini is no lightweight. The Gemini weighs about 35lbs while the Uzzi is in it's 40lbs.

But I can't keep both -- obviously it wouldn't make sense to anyways since they're intended for the same rider -- plus my wife says I have to sell one.

As far as components, each has it's own advantages:

A big issue is the size: Although medium normally fits me, the Uzzi has a pretty high standover, especially with the Boxxer fork. While the Gemini has a much better standover with the Sherman fork. But the Uzzi has a better drivetrain (XTR) and the Gemini has the massive 1.5 steerer with cool-a$$ Diabolique headset. I know both frames are great -- probably the Intense might be better. But the Gemini is newer.

Here's what I want: a bike that I can go anywhere and still climb -- there's a lot of climbing here in Southern Cali. I also want a bike that's going to last and give me the least amount of trouble.

What do ya'll think -- anyone with experience with either that can shed some light?

Peace,
Moe

I guess you're referring to the overall weight of the entire bikes. Can't you mix and match some of those parts to get the Uzzi's weight down? Does that SLX have a 1.5 headtube? I kinda like Geminis, but unless that SLX is buggered up, I'd try to keep it. That 4-bar setup really works.

 

[ronny]

Keep the Gemini

I guess you're referring to the overall weight of the entire bikes. Can't you mix and match some of those parts to get the Uzzi's weight down? Does that SLX have a 1.5 headtube? I kinda like Geminis, but unless that SLX is buggered up, I'd try to keep it. That 4-bar setup really works.

The Gemini for 2003 is a highly touted and reliable bike. For an all around bike there are few that can compare. The Uzzi is much older so keep the newer. The Gemini is also much easier to maintain with only one pivot. Before anyone flames single pivot bikes you should ride the Gemini because it pedals really nice for a sp. The type of riding you are doing seems to go hand in hand with the Gemini. I have never rode the Uzzi but I have noticed that the Uzzi never really caught on in the biking world. I have heard that they fit very large and have a big bb height and tend to be heavy even with lighter parts. I own a high priced Ellsworth Joker Sl and while I am happy with it I have tried the Gemini and it is basically the same style of bike with a much lower price point. If I could do it again I would have chosen the Gemini.

 

[MoeChedda]

Yeah I'm kinda leaning towards the Gemini


I bought the Gemini 1st and although have only done a couple of rides, that bike is sweet. Plenty plush and remarkably stiff frame. You know I honestly don't know why I bought the Uzzi except because it was such a killer deal and the legendary company. I was also thinking of the the multi-link rear suspension on the Uzzi. But the weight of the Uzzi and the height is making me lean more towards the Gemini.

I also heard great things about the Gemini -- I think the biggest complaint was the cable routing (cable rub).

You know I'm also of the mindset that the simpler the mechanics, the longer it should last (at least in theory) -- but I'm sure the Uzzi is bombproof -- the reviews on the Uzzi is extremely high.

I have already in mind picked the Gemini.

So I guess with that, anyone interested in a 2001 Intense Uzzi SLX -- I'll make a sweet deal. I'm going to post in the classifieds.

Thanks for the replies -- both made good points.

Peace.
Moe

The Gemini for 2003 is a highly touted and reliable bike. For an all around bike there are few that can compare. The Uzzi is much older so keep the newer. The Gemini is also much easier to maintain with only one pivot. Before anyone flames single pivot bikes you should ride the Gemini because it pedals really nice for a sp. The type of riding you are doing seems to go hand in hand with the Gemini. I have never rode the Uzzi but I have noticed that the Uzzi never really caught on in the biking world. I have heard that they fit very large and have a big bb height and tend to be heavy even with lighter parts. I own a high priced Ellsworth Joker Sl and while I am happy with it I have tried the Gemini and it is basically the same style of bike with a much lower price point. If I could do it again I would have chosen the Gemini.

 

[DiRt DeViL]

Keep the Gemini and swap components in order to have the best ones on it.

 

[MoeChedda]

Gemini it is

Keep the Gemini and swap components in order to have the best ones on it.

Thanks for the advice -- it helped to confirm my feeling.

BTW, cool pics DiRt DeViL!

Moe

 

[IJR]

Dude IMO you are making a huge mistake keeping the gemini. With the single pivot you're going to have chain torque, brake jack and pedal bob.

With the Uzzi you will have a fully active suspension. Even if the Uzzi doesn't have a 5th, it will still pedal better and have none of the aforementioned bad traits that single pivots have.

The only drawback to the uzzi is the interupted seat tube. You have to get a telescoping seatpost to be able to lower the seat enough for serious downhilling.

I currently own a slx and a yeti asx (single pivot like the gemini) for an all around bike the slx is one of the best out there and blows away the single pivots (again as an all around bike). If all you were going to do was huck I'd get the single pivot, that's what my asx is for. If you were comparing it to a vpp bike it would be different but comparing it to a single pivot man that's comparing apples and rotten oranges.

 

[ronny]

No mistake.

Dude IMO you are making a huge mistake keeping the gemini. With the single pivot you're going to have chain torque, brake jack and pedal bob.

With the Uzzi you will have a fully active suspension. Even if the Uzzi doesn't have a 5th, it will still pedal better and have none of the aforementioned bad traits that single pivots have.

The only drawback to the uzzi is the interupted seat tube. You have to get a telescoping seatpost to be able to lower the seat enough for serious downhilling.

I currently own a slx and a yeti asx (single pivot like the gemini) for an all around bike the slx is one of the best out there and blows away the single pivots (again as an all around bike). If all you were going to do was huck I'd get the single pivot, that's what my asx is for. If you were comparing it to a vpp bike it would be different but comparing it to a single pivot man that's comparing apples and rotten oranges.

Obviously you have not ridden the newer Gemini. It pedals like a xc bike up hill and there is minimal bob. Or no bob if you are not a masher. For a long travel bike the Gemini is in a class of its own. Brake Jack is a non issue and the frame is super stiff. The guy that posted this thread wants a trail bike not a 9" DH machine. The Gemini is way lighter than anything in its class. We are talking 5lbs or more compared to an Uzzi built with similar parts. For a trail bike going up and down the Gemini is a much better choice than the portly Uzzi. Plus if If I had to choose between a 01 or 03 bike with newer parts it is not a hard choice.

Get off of your linkage high horse. Multi pivot bikes are way harder to maintain and there are more parts to break. The Uzzi is big with awkward geometry that is like mounting a horse if you have to get off mid trail. This is probably the main reason that it did not catch on with the masses. The Uzzi SLX is also very over priced. I dont even think Intense is making them anymore. It is possible to own a single pivot that performs. Look at the Heckler, Gemini, Bullit. Read the reviews of Gemini owners. Some of the best bike handlers in the world are tearing it up on single pivot bikes. Hint: Cedric Gracia.

 

[IJR]

Ronny, I don't whether to laugh or cry, anyway your last post speaks volumes.

FYI, I did ride the new gemini when I was looking for a frame to replace my bullit, two of them as a matter of fact that's why I got an ASX.

Trying to bring what pros into the equation is also good, I guess everyone but you got the memo that said pros win because they are damn good riders not because they ride brand X bike

Obviously your ESP isn't working so do yourself a favor and research some before you post more misinformation like that.

 

[J_B]

Go with the Gemini. Intense is overrated. Not too mention that the SLX is a '01. That was the first year the SLX was out. No 1.5 headtube and no 5th Element. I bought an Intense SL and had nothing but pivot problems. Sold it and bought a Heckler just a few months ago. The only complaint about the Heckler is I didn't wait to get the color I really wanted.

My buddy is riding a Gemini w/ Sherman Breakout and he loves it. He also owned an Intense SL and he hated it. Sold the frame and every piece of equipment that had Intense's name on it.

Sell the SLX and buy a Sherman Breakout for the Gemini.

 

[TNC]

5 Pounds difference in frame weight?

Obviously you have not ridden the newer Gemini. It pedals like a xc bike up hill and there is minimal bob. Or no bob if you are not a masher. For a long travel bike the Gemini is in a class of its own. Brake Jack is a non issue and the frame is super stiff. The guy that posted this thread wants a trail bike not a 9" DH machine. The Gemini is way lighter than anything in its class. We are talking 5lbs or more compared to an Uzzi built with similar parts. For a trail bike going up and down the Gemini is a much better choice than the portly Uzzi. Plus if If I had to choose between a 01 or 03 bike with newer parts it is not a hard choice.

Get off of your linkage high horse. Multi pivot bikes are way harder to maintain and there are more parts to break. The Uzzi is big with awkward geometry that is like mounting a horse if you have to get off mid trail. This is probably the main reason that it did not catch on with the masses. The Uzzi SLX is also very over priced. I dont even think Intense is making them anymore. It is possible to own a single pivot that performs. Look at the Heckler, Gemini, Bullit. Read the reviews of Gemini owners. Some of the best bike handlers in the world are tearing it up on single pivot bikes. Hint: Cedric Gracia.

As I said in the first post response, I actually like the Gemini. I have a couple of Bullits and there are definite similarities. We sell Geminis at our shop, and a fellow mechanic has one--good bike. I like my Bullits also, and one of them is even made into more of a trail bike, but it does have a couple of traditional single pivot quirks--just like the Gemini. Bikes like the Gemini and Bullit do not climb as well as similarly sized and travel equal 4-bar Horst link bikes like the SLX. I also have a 6.5" travel '00 Big Hit. These 4-bar Horst link bikes keep their rear wheels in contact with ground better on technical climbs. There's less chain influence and therefore less rear wheel influence on most 4-bar Horst link designs. On the Bullit and Gemini the rear tire occassionally breaks traction on a technical uphill because of that chain influence. It's not massive, but it's definitely there. As to whether the brake jack is important or not depends on the kind of terrain one rides on and how fast a rider is going on that terrain. In fast rocky and ledgy terrain, like Moab for example, a rider can brake later and harder on a good 4-bar Horst link bike. A rider can also change direction under fairly heavy braking easier on a good 4-bar Horst model. Have these issues made me run out an buy all 4-bar Horst bikes and toss my Bullits?--obviously not. But it doesn't change the fact that there are couple of fairly significant superior elements that a good 4-bar Horst link model has over most big single pivot models. One thing that a 4-bar Horst link model has to overcome is the multiple pivot flexiness issue--especially at that Horst link at the dropout. For these models to retain lateral rigidity, they usually get a little heavier in the rear stays with more and bigger material. But that's a little heavier...not usually 5lbs. heavier. I am definitely not bashing Geminis, Bullits, or single pivots in general. They are simple, effective, reasonably light, and usually cheaper. But one cannot dismiss good 4-bar Horst link bikes as just some overpriced, heavy, gimmick design. There's a definite reason that companies have paid Specialized to be able to use that design--it works. As to Intense possibly/probably not making the SLX anymore, I'd bet it has more to do with the fact that now they are paying Santa Cruz to utilize the VPP suspension design.

 

[ronny]

Misinformation.

Ronny, I don't whether to laugh or cry, anyway your last post speaks volumes.

FYI, I did ride the new gemini when I was looking for a frame to replace my bullit, two of them as a matter of fact that's why I got an ASX.

Trying to bring what pros into the equation is also good, I guess everyone but you got the memo that said pros win because they are damn good riders not because they ride brand X bike

Obviously your ESP isn't working so do yourself a favor and research some before you post more misinformation like that.

JR. you made it sound like the Gemini being a single pivot and all would be a shitty ride so thats why I brought the Pros into the equation. Yes I admit it is the rider and not the bike that matters. It is interesting that a Pro can win on a shitty single pivot design. Does that mean that if Gracia was on a linkage bike that he would do even better. I doubt it.

I have done a lot of research on bikes as of late my friend. The intense weighs a lot more than a Gemini and is grossly over priced. Tell me the misinformation in that statement. The Gemini is a stiff frame especially with the thru axles in the front and back on the 04 2000 and DH model. Misinformation? I have ridden the Gemini and found it climbs excellent and many other riders on one say the same. Misinformation I guess. The Gemini weighs in around 35-36lbs and most other 7&7 bikes are 40lbs+. I guess I was wrong about that also. Having a single pivot is easier to maintain than multi pivots. Since when is it not? Another guy responded saying he had nothing but problems with pivots on his Intense. I guess he is a nut job also.

I guess I am not a pro and a hard core biking Guru like you so I will get rid of my single pivot and get a Uzzi. What was I thinking.

 

[ronny]

Good points.

As I said in the first post response, I actually like the Gemini. I have a couple of Bullits and there are definite similarities. We sell Geminis at our shop, and a fellow mechanic has one--good bike. I like my Bullits also, and one of them is even made into more of a trail bike, but it does have a couple of traditional single pivot quirks--just like the Gemini. Bikes like the Gemini and Bullit do not climb as well as similarly sized and travel equal 4-bar Horst link bikes like the SLX. I also have a 6.5" travel '00 Big Hit. These 4-bar Horst link bikes keep their rear wheels in contact with ground better on technical climbs. There's less chain influence and therefore less rear wheel influence on most 4-bar Horst link designs. On the Bullit and Gemini the rear tire occassionally breaks traction on a technical uphill because of that chain influence. It's not massive, but it's definitely there. As to whether the brake jack is important or not depends on the kind of terrain one rides on and how fast a rider is going on that terrain. In fast rocky and ledgy terrain, like Moab for example, a rider can brake later and harder on a good 4-bar Horst link bike. A rider can also change direction under fairly heavy braking easier on a good 4-bar Horst model. Have these issues made me run out an buy all 4-bar Horst bikes and toss my Bullits?--obviously not. But it doesn't change the fact that there are couple of fairly significant superior elements that a good 4-bar Horst link model has over most big single pivot models. One thing that a 4-bar Horst link model has to overcome is the multiple pivot flexiness issue--especially at that Horst link at the dropout. For these models to retain lateral rigidity, they usually get a little heavier in the rear stays with more and bigger material. But that's a little heavier...not usually 5lbs. heavier. I am definitely not bashing Geminis, Bullits, or single pivots in general. They are simple, effective, reasonably light, and usually cheaper. But one cannot dismiss good 4-bar Horst link bikes as just some overpriced, heavy, gimmick design. There's a definite reason that companies have paid Specialized to be able to use that design--it works. As to Intense possibly/probably not making the SLX anymore, I'd bet it has more to do with the fact that now they are paying Santa Cruz to utilize the VPP suspension design.

I agree with you on many points. I disagree with your statement about a big hit being a good climber. My buddy has a 02 big hit and it is quicksand going up compared to a lighter Gemini. The design might help with traction but not enough for a bighit to be a good climbing bike. I guess it works for you though so cool. I think that four bar is great but I like single pivots for simplicity. The new era of stable platform shocks has really helpled out single pivot designs.

I was defending single pivots because buddy said the difference is like apples and oranges. I disagree. I have tried many linkage designs and find they work good but for an aggressive trail bike a single pivot works just fine. I find a bike like the Gemini or Heckler to be very competent pedaling and climbing bikes. As for weight I went to my LBS and threw a Gemini on the scale and it was 35lbs. Most 7&7 bikes are a good 4lbs heavier with similar parts. If I was a hard core climber or epic trail rider of course I would consider a design like the Blur, Intense, or Epic but for what I do for now a single pivot works for me.

Thanks for the input and for not turning this topic into a bash / flame fest. It is nice to interact without insults.

 

[IJR]

TNC did all your research for you. Now read his post and compare it to your statements. Unless your reading comprehension skills are at the 3rd grade level you will clearly see the points you were mistaken on.

Since you asked for it, let me point out some other obvious mistakes

first you stated that OBVIOUSLY I had never ridden a new gemini when in fact i had

you stated you had never ridden an uzzi, yet you state that the uzzi is like mounting a horse on the trail, I guess your ESP led you to that conclusion.

You infer that the uzzi is a 9" travel bike it's not

you also infer that "most other" 7 & 7 bikes weigh 40+ lbs. My SLX with a z1 fr fork weighs 34lbs my ASX weighs 41 lbs $hit my damn VP free only weighs 39 lbs and that's with dh tubes. I'll let you find out how much travel it has

There are more, but like I said before do some research before you go shooting off your keyboard.

 

[rprice]

I also disagree tend to disagree with TNC...

I own/ride both a horst link Switchblade and a single pivot Joke7. I think the one problem the fully active horst design has is squat. The Switchblade tends to squat into it's travel in a way that makes climbing a bit more difficult. At times the Switchblade tends to rock in it's travel just enough to loose traction in the loose steep stuff. The Joker7 tends to do better in the same spots.

I recall a couple riders who went from an Uzzi and a FSR to Bullits and were amazed at how well the Bullits climbed. One owner complained that the Uzzi felt like it was "climbing in mud". Of course not all horst link designs are the same, but I think suspension squat is a negative for climbing with a fully active horst link design.

I'd still hold onto the SLX...

 

[ronny]

Nice.

TNC did all your research for you. Now read his post and compare it to your statements. Unless your reading comprehension skills are at the 3rd grade level you will clearly see the points you were mistaken on.

Since you asked for it, let me point out some other obvious mistakes

first you stated that OBVIOUSLY I had never ridden a new gemini when in fact i had

you stated you had never ridden an uzzi, yet you state that the uzzi is like mounting a horse on the trail, I guess your ESP led you to that conclusion.

You infer that the uzzi is a 9" travel bike it's not

you also infer that "most other" 7 & 7 bikes weigh 40+ lbs. My SLX with a z1 fr fork weighs 34lbs my ASX weighs 41 lbs $hit my damn VP free only weighs 39 lbs and that's with dh tubes. I'll let you find out how much travel it has

There are more, but like I said before do some research before you go shooting off your keyboard.

Whats with the insults. I have been on a Uzzi and found it to be have a high BB and to be a large fitting bike. I dont think I said that I had never been on one. Secondly the 9" travel comment was because you were recommending long travel freeride bikes and the dude that started the thread said he was doing a lot of climbing and trail riding. The comment was sarcastic. I thought with your superior intellect and "comprehension skills" you would figure that out.

Your ASX weighs about 6lbs more than the Gemini and your "Damn" Vp is almost 5lbs heavier. YOU ARE SUPPORTING MY STATEMENT WHEN I WROTE MOST 7&7 BIKES ARE HEAVIER THAN THE GEMINI Thanks Dude. You named three bikes and two of them are around 40lbs and heavier than the Gemini. Dont take everything so literal. I said most bikes not all. Read closely Danielson. Obviously you just want to get into an insult war and I am not biting. I was just trying to help the guy out and *******s like you just have to be ignorant and throw rude barbs. You think you are so high and mighty spouting off about your $$$$$$$$$$ bikes. Do you think anyone cares? This thread is to help a guy make a decision not a single pivot vs linkage bike war. If you feel that strongly start your own thread and brag about your bikes all you want.

 

[ronny]

I run the Joker 7 also

I own/ride both a horst link Switchblade and a single pivot Joke7. I think the one problem the fully active horst design has is squat. The Switchblade tends to squat into it's travel in a way that makes climbing a bit more difficult. At times the Switchblade tends to rock in it's travel just enough to loose traction in the loose steep stuff. The Joker7 tends to do better in the same spots.

I recall a couple riders who went from an Uzzi and a FSR to Bullits and were amazed at how well the Bullits climbed. One owner complained that the Uzzi felt like it was "climbing in mud". Of course not all horst link designs are the same, but I think suspension squat is a negative for climbing with a fully active horst link design.

I'd still hold onto the SLX...

I have never rode a switchblade or any Titus bike. How do you like it overall? I have heard good reviews. I have the Joker 7 and I am surprised at how well it climbs for a 7" bike. Mine is set up pretty heavy but is still is a blast on the trails. I think it all comes down to rider preference as far as suspension designs go. You could argue all day about what is better.

 

[Jm.]

I own/ride both a horst link Switchblade and a single pivot Joke7. I think the one problem the fully active horst design has is squat. The Switchblade tends to squat into it's travel in a way that makes climbing a bit more difficult. At times the Switchblade tends to rock in it's travel just enough to loose traction in the loose steep stuff. The Joker7 tends to do better in the same spots.

lol, we got some real winners on this thread.

FYI, the switchblade is a much better climber than the joker will ever be, it has better geometry that keeps more weight over the front, it has shorter stays, it has a fully active suspension that doesn't break traction over bumps when you try to pedal (like the joker does being a single pivot bike). The suspension on the joker is affected by the pedal inputs, and when it is trying to absorb bumps, your pedal torque will interfear with the rear suspension absorbing bumps, so it tries to cancel out and you loose traction because of this. Going up rough climbs is exactly where you'll notice this, as I have.

Anyone who claims a 7" travel bike is a better climber than a 5" bike ( a FSR no less) is simply on crack, as are many people in this thread.

 

[ronny]

Get lost JM

lol, we got some real winners on this thread.

FYI, the switchblade is a much better climber than the joker will ever be, it has better geometry that keeps more weight over the front, it has shorter stays, it has a fully active suspension that doesn't break traction over bumps when you try to pedal (like the joker does being a single pivot bike). The suspension on the joker is affected by the pedal inputs, and when it is trying to absorb bumps, your pedal torque will interfear with the rear suspension absorbing bumps, so it tries to cancel out and you loose traction because of this. Going up rough climbs is exactly where you'll notice this, as I have.

Anyone who claims a 7" travel bike is a better climber than a 5" bike ( a FSR no less) is simply on crack, as are many people in this thread.

You just cant post without being an idiot can you JM. Always laying down the insults. Are you like 12 or what? I like how you tell a Switch blade owner what he feels and observes when he rides his bike. Like he just makes it up or something. Do you own a Joker or a Switchblade? This guy owns both and you are trying to tell him that he is lying? Going up rough climbs is where my Joker does well. I guess you will tell me that is impossible because it lacks the proper geometry, advanced FSR suspension, blah, blah.

You are on crack my friend. The suspension on the Joker has mimimal reaction from pedal inputs when seated. I own one but I guess I wouldnt know. As far as FSR goes it is a good design but on a bike like the bighit it does not work. I have ridden bighits and they climb like shite. During braking the FSR works well but the bighit is a burden uphill. Maybe the switchblade is a better overall climber than the Joker but the guy said his Joker climbs better on the loose stuff. It is his opinion so go insult someone else. That is what you do isnt it. Surf all of the threads and start flame fests. Get a life buddy. For real. Hey JM while you are at it why dont you bring up the Ellsworth warranty to see if you can start a real war? LOSER!

 

[IJR]

You're right ronny, I apologize for my comment about your reading comprehension being at the 3rd grade level. Everyone that reads this thread will see how wrong I was. Thanks setting me straight.