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As I mentioned earlier, I'm planning on putting a Lefty on a RIP9 frame. I would like to know what the technical differences are among the three different aluminum 140 mm travel products. The are listed as FFD (Fluid Flow Damping), TPC (twin piston chamber), and SPV.

Can someone familiar with these products describe the differences? Are the mechanisms all the same? Different levels of adjustability? What?

I see they are all air over spring types. Gotta love the linearity of that heavy metal spring.
 

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What I know

Lifespeed said:
...FFD (Fluid Flow Damping), TPC (twin piston chamber), and SPV.
Can someone familiar with these products describe the differences? Are the mechanisms all the same? Different levels of adjustability? What?
Those are all Manitou damping systems. You can check out their website for more info, most likely. SPV is the platform damping system. TPC (or TPC+) is non-platform, and has the reputation as the best small bump compliance on the market. Fluid flow is Manitou's 2nd tier system, still very good, but their best forks are either TPC or SPV.

The longer travel lefty Max (130/140) don't have lockout like the shorter travel ones (100/110). SPV has a platform adjustment. All of the Maxes I have seen have external compression adjust and internal rebound. Plus you can play with oil weight, spring weight, etc.
 

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Dr Gadget is IN
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Max Leftys

So - you're talking Lefty Max for the 140. Dirtdad was right - all Manitou stuff, so you can look up descriptions on answer/manitou website.

First off - there is no air in there. Just the coil spring, and the oil in the damper. The SPV is controlled by air pressure tho (see below)

FFD - adjustable rebound, fixed compression damping. Probably good enough for most folks, but moving it to 29er means that it may not be as on targer. YMMV

TPC - the star, in my opinion. Now you have adjustable compression damping too. The rebound is the same.

SPV - adjustable rebound, compression/platform adjustable via air pressure - which also changes the spring, requiring double adjust to get comp and sag right.

Notes for used/ebay: upgrade FFD to TPC for about $90. SPV to TPC is more like $190. TPC to TPC+ for $90 :) - but only works in a 29er.

All the bodies are the same in alloy, and can use the P321 clamp/steerer conversion to 1 1/8"
 

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Hybrid Leftys aren't real
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Man, I was going to jump in and share the love, but these two have you covered! Only things I'd add are Dirtdad indicated internal rebound control, they are alwys external, and Wadester alluded to TPC+ but didn't mention the deal with it. It offers a second compression stage, that ramps up the damping during big hits, helping keep the spring rate more progressive. A fact that some complain about with Leftys, but which Cannondale n longer offers, due to most not even knowing the difference :D
 

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A hopped on pop.
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oh....and don't forget the lefty carbons with terralogic (the fox inertia valve technology that is in the fox f80/100x forks)....

yummy....daddy wants one!!! :thumbsup:
 

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Kam said:
oh....and don't forget the lefty carbons with terralogic (the fox inertia valve technology that is in the fox f80/100x forks)....

yummy....daddy wants one!!! :thumbsup:
Those have been a point of much contention, and are no longer in the lineup. Too much harsh on again, off again, most efficiency obsessed racer boys loved the harsh ride, everyone else (most of the market share for the forks) hated it. They are also plagued with problems, which can only be addressed by Fox. Note this is not to be confused with the general attitude of a number of Cannondale dealers of not wanting to fix any Lefty, in house, but a distinct series of Fox exclusive issues, that had to go back to the factory for remedy. But if you like 'em, you like 'em, far be it from me, to say you shouldn't bolt one on, just know what you're getting yourself into! :thumbsup:
 

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MendonCycleSmith said:
Those have been a point of much contention, and are no longer in the lineup. Too much harsh on again, off again, most efficiency obsessed racer boys loved the harsh ride, everyone else (most of the market share for the forks) hated it. They are also plagued with problems, which can only be addressed by Fox. Note this is not to be confused with the general attitude of a number of Cannondale dealers of not wanting to fix any Lefty, in house, but a distinct series of Fox exclusive issues, that had to go back to the factory for remedy. But if you like 'em, you like 'em, far be it from me, to say you shouldn't bolt one on, just know what you're getting yourself into! :thumbsup:


oh....never mind. didn't know they were such lemons. i greatly appreciate your input.

i am pretty happy with my lefty max 40 with ffd. the only problem i have with fork is with the 321 clamps i am using.

the 321 clamps are pretty chunky so the bottom clamp hits the downtube of my steel ss 29er, even with a ventana king 7mm crown race.

the clamp barely clears my 29er ti geary with the 7mm race.

i have been thinking about getting a carbon lefty for the ss. the bonded clamps on the carbon lefty forks seem much less chunky that the 321 alloy clamps. hopefully they would clear my downtube. if not, then i am sure if would clear with a 7mm race.

what do you think mendon cycle smith???

thanks in advance.
 

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Kam said:
oh....never mind. didn't know they were such lemons. i greatly appreciate your input.

i am pretty happy with my lefty max 40 with ffd. the only problem i have with fork is with the 321 clamps i am using.

the 321 clamps are pretty chunky so the bottom clamp hits the downtube of my steel ss 29er, even with a ventana king 7mm crown race.

the clamp barely clears my 29er ti geary with the 7mm race.

i have been thinking about getting a carbon lefty for the ss. the bonded clamps on the carbon lefty forks seem much less chunky that the 321 alloy clamps. hopefully they would clear my downtube. if not, then i am sure if would clear with a 7mm race.

what do you think mendon cycle smith???

thanks in advance.

Well, it's not sop much that they are bad, the ones that worked, worked great. If that was your cup of tea! Most people like a suspension fork that, well, suspended. If you are familiar with the Specialized Brain on the Epics? Same thing, WHACK it's moving now, 4 seconds later, locked out again. It was like the bike was schizophrenic or something. Jeckyll and Hyde, ya know?

As for your P321's, have you contacted them? Jake is very keen on making his product better, and input such as yours, can be very helpful. Can you post a pic of it? I'm not picturing how it would be happening, and all the P321's I've installed have been the carbons. Come to think of it, you could put your regular clamps back on, and run the carbon adapter. I've not toally thought this through, but I'm not seeing why you couldn't. Again, post a pic, I think if you are having a problem with his, you would with most others too, as the dimensions are prety similar, overall.
 

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multi-responder...

Lifespeed said:
As I mentioned earlier, I'm planning on putting a Lefty on a RIP9 frame
A picture of encouragement. Med/with carbon lefty - a few spacers needed.

Also, Kam - where is your bumper? Thats what is supposed to hit the downtube. Or are you saying the clamp is bigger than the bumper???? Or is the "arm" of the clamp hitting the DT before the strut/bumper get there?
 

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A hopped on pop.
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the lower 321 clamp (the clamp the steerer is pressed into) is hitting the downtube BEFORE the bumper can contact the downtube. the clamp is is bigger than the bumper.

i emailed Jake with the problem. he said that he had never heard of the problem before, that is was a first. he said that my frame has a seriously steep downtube on my steel frame.

also, for what is it worth, the lower 321 alloy clamp also strikes my ti 29er geary with a regular king crown, but all is good with a 7mm ventana king crown.

i will try to fit the my lefty max/321 alloy clampset on my steel 29er and get a pic.

i really wantto run a carbon lefty model fork on my steel 29er. i have a 105mm HT on the frame, so i gotta see what headset will make this work. i know the campy record and extralite hs have a short stack heights.

wadestar, what carbon lefty are you running? how much travel are you getting?

i will try to get pics up later tonight.

cheers!
 

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Kam said:
the lower 321 clamp (the clamp the steerer is pressed into) is hitting the downtube BEFORE the bumper can contact the downtube. the clamp is is bigger than the bumper.

i emailed Jake with the problem. he said that he had never heard of the problem before, that is was a first. he said that my frame has a seriously steep downtube on my steel frame.

also, for what is it worth, the lower 321 alloy clamp also strikes my ti 29er geary with a regular king crown, but all is good with a 7mm ventana king crown.

i will try to fit the my lefty max/321 alloy clampset on my steel 29er and get a pic.

i really wantto run a carbon lefty model fork on my steel 29er. i have a 105mm HT on the frame, so i gotta see what headset will make this work. i know the campy record and extralite hs have a short stack heights.

wadestar, what carbon lefty are you running? how much travel are you getting?

i will try to get pics up later tonight.

cheers!


I'm very intrigued, please do post pics. I just checked my carbon 140 on my Titus, and I have GOBS of room, I can't wrap my head around where the issue is coming from. I know that Jakes clamps are really similar to the OEM ones, so I'm perplexed. As for the steel 29er, my titus has a 115mm HT. I had to shave about .5mm of it to make it fit with a Record headset. They're 24.5mm, Kings are 31mm, so with the extra 10mm between yours and mine, you will have plenty of room for just aboutany headset you could want. My Max is reduced to 110, as is my alloy 140. I could shave a tad more, but 110 on a 29er feels great as it is. :cool:
 

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Kam said:
i really wantto run a carbon lefty model fork on my steel 29er. i have a 105mm HT on the frame, so i gotta see what headset will make this work. i know the campy record and extralite hs have a short stack heights.

wadestar, what carbon lefty are you running? how much travel are you getting?
I have a Lefty Max 140 Carbon SPV (soon to be TPC+ via damper transplants) - I think all Carbon Max are SPV.

RIP9/med has a 105mm HT as well, and I'm running a CaneCreek S2 HS (26mm stack).

There is still too much room between the clamps, so I also have stem spacers between the HS and the upper clamp adapter ring (which floats for preload) - 10-15mm, don't recall now. Check the pic.

My limiter is 25mm, but should be 30mm since I heard knobs grrrring on the clamp last time I bottomed the front (I was still tuning spring/dampers then).

An AL Lefty will allow you to move the clamp up and get a bit more travel than a Carbon
 

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A hopped on pop.
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pics of the 321 alloy clamp and my downtube...

here are a couple of shots of the problem. i am relieved that the 140mm lefty max works on my other bike.

here are 2 shots;

<img src=https://gallery.mtbr.com/data/mtbr/500/321leftyclamp1lowres.jpg>

<img src=https://gallery.mtbr.com/data/mtbr/500/321leftyclamplowres2.jpg>

as you can see in the 2nd pic, the shots are with a 7mm race installed.

thoughts? think i can get away with a lefty carbon???

i wonder if i can get away with a FAT @ss bumper, and not worry about having the clamp hit my DT first.
 

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Aha!

Kam said:
thoughts? think i can get away with a lefty carbon???

i wonder if i can get away with a FAT @ss bumper, and not worry about having the clamp hit my DT first.
Now I see the problem! The location of the clamping bolts is what is causing the problem. A Carbon Max has the clamp bonded to the strut, and is very slim and smooth in that area - the stock bumper will do its job. Now I have to go cogitate on whether this will be a problem in some of my evil plans.

Rather than a fatter bumper on the strut, you (we) need a bumper that actually guards that sharp corner from the frame.
 

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Could you flip the clamp so that the pinch bolts are in the front instead?
 

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motoman711 said:
Could you flip the clamp so that the pinch bolts are in the front instead?
the lower clamp is the one hitting the DT. it has the 1 1/8" steerer pressed into it.

so, if i were to flip the clamp, the steerer would be pointing downward toward the floor :(

also, i thought about grinding down the clamp where it is hitting. i am afraid that thinning out the area so close to the bolt might cause it the clamp to crack some day when i am tightening it.

thanks for the brainstorming though.
 

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Sorry Guys for my Off Topic here...but how do you fit an oversize 1.5" Lefty steerer into a standard headtube?

I presume all Lefty are using a 1.5" size right???
 

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thoughts? think i can get away with a lefty carbon???

i wonder if i can get away with a FAT @ss bumper, and not worry about having the clamp hit my DT first.[/QUOTE]
[/I]

This might help for a FAT @ss Bumper.

Wrap some duct tape around the fork tube were the bumper sits and then you can stretch the bumper over the duct tape to expand it. I did this on my Niner because it was hitting a cable guide on the frame. Give it a try and you never know when some extra duct tape will come in handy on the trail. :thumbsup:

Also check with your local hardware store for some small adhesive rubber bumpers for doors and stick one on the frame.
 

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most of the users on this board with lefty forks are using products from project 321. if you do a search, you will find plenty of info.

basically, project 321 makes a couple of products which allow you to use a 1 1/8" steerer with c-dale lefty forks, not the 1.5" stock steerer.
 
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