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I’m looking to build a GG smash here soon and looking for opinions on a shock and fork combo. I was dead set on DVO because I have their Topaz on my current bike, absolutely love it and hear great things about their Diamond as well.

This past Father’s Day I Demo’d the Smash with a CC Helm and DB Air CS. It’s the first time I rode an CC suspension and although I didn’t get to mess with the settings, the out of the box feel was great.

Im just looking for opinions on those of you that have rode either or both and some thoughts for it. I live in Charlotte and ride Pisgah as often as I can.

I ride at 190ish lbs and pretty aggressive “I think”.
 

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Keep on Rockin...
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This might not help, but I run rear dampers on two of my trail bikes and one if from DVO and one is from CC. Both are very good. And both companies have been great to deal with.
 

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I run db air IL and have had no issues for a few years, about as customizable as you can get with each move of the external adjustments have a meaningfull impact with very little turn. When I am close to my damping sweet spot a click or two of lsc/lsr in any direction can be felt and same with less than a quarter turn of hsr/hsc. Also the climb switch is the best I've used because it not only impacts the compression damping but also applies an appropriate amount of rebound damping. I also like how it's not an on/off switch you can move it partially through the switch to get 2/3 or 1/2 of the full climb switch impact. I most often use this on long really techy climbs where I need additional pedaling platform for hard standing pedals but still need some give to assist in moving through really chunky stuff, if you didn't have additional rebound damping in this stuff you would get some undesirable kickback. Only negative is you have to send off to CC for service unlike dvo/fox/rockshox because special tools are needed.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

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I've had both and they are really good. I give the edge to CC because they were so far ahead of the pack with the double barrel design and offering 4-way adjustments. With DVO I really didn't like tuning with bands or having to access the shim stack (though still a completely valid tuning option, just would rather turn a 3mm to change compression). The IL coil saved my front triangle space and I could fit a water bottle better and then the climb switch was the icing on the cake for me.
 

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Underskilled
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Not ridden the DVO, so more just responding to the CC comments above.

I've used a large selection of shocks and the damping circuit is one of the best out there. It's based on the the ohlins ttx like the X2. After fox stole the design from CC, CC returned the favour with the fancy air spring.

So the current edition is just phenomenal.

The climb switch is interesting. It's great on everything apart from designs that need a lot hore hsr tune than hsc (pole evolink). I've tweaked my tune and it works well.

I don't get the whole not service at home part (hence my joining the thread). I've had two air il (new and old). After a couple of years of heavy abuse on the early one the damper was starting to feel aerated. Just drop the diaphragm pressure, open the bleed screw and bleed using a funnel.
I've also recently swapped out the oil for lighter weight stuff (redline 0w). Only took half and hour.

No work needed on the new one yet.

I've not done a full strip yet, because I have not needed to. I'll probably send it away at that time. Doing that every few years isn't a problem.

The new air an on the IL is a big upgrade from an almost perfect shock.
 

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Elitest thrill junkie
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Not ridden the DVO, so more just responding to the CC comments above.

I've used a large selection of shocks and the damping circuit is one of the best out there. It's based on the the ohlins ttx like the X2. After fox stole the design from CC, CC returned the favour with the fancy air spring.

So the current edition is just phenomenal.

The climb switch is interesting. It's great on everything apart from designs that need a lot hore hsr tune than hsc (pole evolink). I've tweaked my tune and it works well.

I don't get the whole not service at home part (hence my joining the thread). I've had two air il (new and old). After a couple of years of heavy abuse on the early one the damper was starting to feel aerated. Just drop the diaphragm pressure, open the bleed screw and bleed using a funnel.
I've also recently swapped out the oil for lighter weight stuff (redline 0w). Only took half and hour.

No work needed on the new one yet.

I've not done a full strip yet, because I have not needed to. I'll probably send it away at that time. Doing that every few years isn't a problem.

The new air an on the IL is a big upgrade from an almost perfect shock.
Here's a differing opinion from RM:

Theres a few things at work here.

First the X2 is a gimmick.
Ill lay my case
The twin tube design was heavily implemented by ohlins in road racing, where the shaft velocities are low, and the only high ones are potholes. Having the external low speed adjusters and external high speed adjusters is good in this application as the high speed sets the pressure at which the damper will blow off when they hit a pothole. The larger units have or had shimstacks that either lift off the seat via the high speed spring, or have an edge loaded shim to bolster the shim stacks cracking pressure via the high speed adjuster

Ohlins, doesnt use a FULL ttx design, but rather a hybrid of a decarbon and a twin tube on their own offroad shocks.
Then in comes cane creek.
they licence the ttx system, but does it look like the ohlins found standard on a specalized?
NO
its a twin tube with poppet style high speeds.
putting a rim loaded or blow off type shim stack takes up a bit of room
see the size of the bridge on the ohlins shock, its pretty big and only has the HSC adjuster in it.
then comes fox, another twin tube with poppet style high speeds........
well a poppet is not a shim,
a shim has no preload unless on a dished piston.... which nobody uses offroad
the problem with a ccdb and x2 is that you cant get enough low speed from them without cranking the high speed adjuster down,
preloaidng the hs adjuster makes for a harsh feel.
so your stuck with either
no low speed and plush mid-high with no real HIGH speed dampening
or
Some low speed dampening Harsh mid-high and no real HIGH speed dampening
but its high tech
but its FACTORY,
but its the best fox has to offer!!
but but but but.
nope,
all your getting is an adjustable HIGH speed rebound.
what value does that bring YOU!
well unless you routinely gain and loose hundred lbs and need a massive spring rate and rebound change then about nothing
again it benefits fox
No need to sell an aftermarket or even oem variations of the shock. You know the Soft Medium and Firm tunes, that should be correlated to a frames leverage ratio and your weight, and speed...
One size fits all, a manufacturers dream,
just tell them that its so sophisticated that everyone needs the same one.

I started looking to see if anyone revalved them, wanted to do it myself since I always have serviced my own dampers for moto, bike, race cars, for myself and others. Came across avalanche putting their piston in adding a rebound stack, and a softer "mid valve" stack which lets you crank the HS adjusters down, allowing the damper to have a reasonable amount of low speed, But when you hit something hard the MV shims allow flow, and at higher speeds the poppets open. It seems to work well enough. But I cant help but think that softening the stock MV arrangement by removing most shims (fox shows a soft tune on the parts schematics but does not offer it for sale) id go at least that soft. and run the high speed adjuster down to 8 from full in. It should work, very well actually, creating a hybrid twin tube.
 

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Elitest thrill junkie
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Elitest thrill junkie
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Underskilled
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Impressive response, most of which I agree with. However my experience has been different at points.

The ls/hs dials are very tunable, but adjusts ls/ms. You can set a nicely supportive low speed that is fast/flowy for mid speed hits.

Where you are spot on with is the HS.
Any hit over a certain size uses full travel no matter what the HS dial is set too.

It doesn't feel like it bottoms, just the O ring is at full travel far more frequently than you would expect.

It's the best shock I've ridden, though to be fair I've never ridden a custom shock or reshimmed one.

Part of me wants a mara, but I can't think of anything much that could be improved on!
 

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I've really liked the way the CCDB CS coil rides, there are a couple things about it that bother me though. It's primairly the sizing, I have the 8.5x2.5" version (216x63).

Actual measurements were 214mmx60mm as the hard stops. It's 2mm shorter to start with, which with the leverage ratio, lowered the static BB height 5mm. It also reduced travel from 160mm down to 153mm. Thats if it were to hit metal/metal without the rubber bumper.

The rubber bumper is also very dense and ~10mm thick. I'd be surpised if it compressed more then 1-2mm on the bike. Somebody put one in a vise and saw just that, fully compressed with all the vise had to offer only compressed it down to ~8mm. That's another 20mm of lost travel. It basically turned my 160mm travel bike into a 130mm travel bike.

That said, the traction is amazing and it absolutely smashes through the chunky stuff. There is no comparision on how well it handles the chunk compared to the Monarch+ and Float X2 factory. I won't mind trying a CCDB Air at this point, but the home maintenance is a big deal. It was $200 to get the CCDB coil rebuilt. Sorry, but that's bullshit. I can rebuild a RS product for like $50. They need to put together a kit and instructions on home service. I don't see me buying another CC product until that happens.

As for DVO, I have the Diamond up front. I've changed some stuff inside and it's rides pretty well now. In factory form, it was incredibly supportive...and harsh. Not sure if that's representative of their other stuff or not.
 

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The rubber bumper is also very dense and ~10mm thick. I'd be surpised if it compressed more then 1-2mm on the bike. Somebody put one in a vise and saw just that, fully compressed with all the vise had to offer only compressed it down to ~8mm. That's another 20mm of lost travel. It basically turned my 160mm travel bike into a 130mm travel bike.
I saw this in the CC db coil IL thread.. FWIW I had mine mounted on my bike sans spring, with the C-clip underneath the bumper. Just with body weight (150#) I was able to pancake the rubber bumper to 4-5mm. There are little holes that help with further compression on the bottom. Sure, when you add a spring it'll be much more difficult at bottom out but I don't buy this overly dense bottom out bumper nonsense.
 

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Underskilled
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I've really liked the way the CCDB CS coil rides, there are a couple things about it that bother me though. It's primairly the sizing, I have the 8.5x2.5" version (216x63).

Actual measurements were 214mmx60mm as the hard stops. It's 2mm shorter to start with, which with the leverage ratio, lowered the static BB height 5mm. It also reduced travel from 160mm down to 153mm. Thats if it were to hit metal/metal without the rubber bumper.

The rubber bumper is also very dense and ~10mm thick. I'd be surpised if it compressed more then 1-2mm on the bike. Somebody put one in a vise and saw just that, fully compressed with all the vise had to offer only compressed it down to ~8mm. That's another 20mm of lost travel. It basically turned my 160mm travel bike into a 130mm travel bike.

That said, the traction is amazing and it absolutely smashes through the chunky stuff. There is no comparision on how well it handles the chunk compared to the Monarch+ and Float X2 factory. I won't mind trying a CCDB Air at this point, but the home maintenance is a big deal. It was $200 to get the CCDB coil rebuilt. Sorry, but that's bullshit. I can rebuild a RS product for like $50. They need to put together a kit and instructions on home service. I don't see me buying another CC product until that happens.

As for DVO, I have the Diamond up front. I've changed some stuff inside and it's rides pretty well now. In factory form, it was incredibly supportive...and harsh. Not sure if that's representative of their other stuff or not.
Basic home servicing is very easy on this shock, I'd say the easiest I've done.
You might need to send it away for a full service, but never needed to do that (yet).
 

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I saw this in the CC db coil IL thread.. FWIW I had mine mounted on my bike sans spring, with the C-clip underneath the bumper. Just with body weight (150#) I was able to pancake the rubber bumper to 4-5mm. There are little holes that help with further compression on the bottom. Sure, when you add a spring it'll be much more difficult at bottom out but I don't buy this overly dense bottom out bumper nonsense.
Yup I easily use all the stroke on my CCDB, without trying too hard it might only have 2mm unused travel

I don't quite understand the "can't be serviced at home" argument against a lot of products, its a high end suspension damper, not a set of drawers from IKEA! For anyone who's familiar with suspension the DB shocks are some of the nicest to work on, and only need a couple of specific tools. Plus you can buy every part as a spare, more than what can be said for RS!
 

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I think I only got like 1-2mm out of it myself on the bike, but I'll toss it in again and double check that.

The home service thing comes from there being ZERO data to support servicing them. That's great if it's easy to do and you can get parts because I LOVE the way it rides. But nearly $200 for a full service isn't something I want to do again when I have nitrogen for charging and lots of tools to do the work myself. How are you getting the parts? Do they have a rebuild kit that you can buy that they just don't advertise anywhere? I'd rather pick up a kit then track down 20 different orings and bushings.
 

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I think I only got like 1-2mm out of it myself on the bike, but I'll toss it in again and double check that.

The home service thing comes from there being ZERO data to support servicing them. That's great if it's easy to do and you can get parts because I LOVE the way it rides. But nearly $200 for a full service isn't something I want to do again when I have nitrogen for charging and lots of tools to do the work myself. How are you getting the parts? Do they have a rebuild kit that you can buy that they just don't advertise anywhere? I'd rather pick up a kit then track down 20 different orings and bushings.
This is testing it on the trail, I've never tried compressing the bumper in the workshop at all so I don't know what that would achieve

The service info is there if you go looking-

https://www.kaztechnologies.com/downloads/ohlins-ttx25-mkii/
https://kaz-technologies.myshopify.com/
https://airnshox.com/category.php?ctg=mtbshock&man=canecreek

This shouldn't be hard for anyone capable of servicing a shock?
 
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