[LexSuperfly]

So a certain company's web site says its meeting the highest social/enviro standards but at least the one product I bought is stamped as made in China. Not Taiwan like many carbon products but good old mainland Gina. Somehow I find that claim hard to believe. For what I paid I was sure this was made in USA.

 

[driver bob]

Why do you find it hard to believe?

 

[benjpi]

B corporation certification costs money. Like a lot of industrial certifications, there's a difference between the intent and the execution. The certification by itself (B corp) gives the appearance of "green-ness" - allowing marketing of the company's benevolence - without necessarily meaning that the company tries to be environmentally "pure" in practice. It CAN mean that, but it doesn't always.

Here's the cost structure to be green-marketable: Certification | Certified B Corporation

Even the lowest entry fee rate at $1,000 per year could be a tough burden for small business like T-shirt places or bike shops.

 

[127.0.0.1]

unless you can point to the specific manufacturer and the supposed violations...

 

[benjpi]

Unless you can point to a specific manufacturer and prove their spotless record...

You first?

 

[BadgerOne]

Based solely on the thread title, I'm going with 'no'. Some of us know more than we wish we did about China. I would call my perspective admittedly speculative, but with plenty of general evidence in Chinese manufacturing to strongly support my suspicions.

Here's the problem with a cert like this - you can't say they meet the standard at all times. They may clean up their act when applying or refreshing a cert, but let things slide a little differently day to day. It's the like the whole 'made from milk from cows not treated with rBST growth hormone'. Food producers have to take the farmer's word for it, there is no test to verify.

And of course, there is carbon in general as you show in the picture. The enviromental footprint for carbon production is at least twice that of any other material used in bikes even with modern production, and at the end of its lifecycle it can't be recycled or broken down, so the rating seems bunk from the outset.

 

[*OneSpeed*]

I'm guessing he's talking about QBP and all the brands under that umbrella? Not much to go off of with those pics though.

OP you seem new to the bike industry, and this is not an uncommon reaction.

VERY few components are made in the USA. When it comes to things like carbon forks I can't think of a single manufacturer in the US.

For sure if you bought a big brand bike, none of the carbon bits are MUSA. (Yeah, guy who's chomping at the bit to point out that Ibis makes a few things now, I know.) You think your bike was expensive? If it WAS made in the USA it would cost twice as much probably. Compare to prices on Enve products, many of which aren't made in the US.

 

[benjpi]

Based solely on the thread title, I'm going with 'no'. Some of us know more than we wish we did about China. I would call my perspective admittedly speculative, but with plenty of general evidence in Chinese manufacturing to strongly support my suspicions.

I'd guess we could share a story or two.

 

[Ailuropoda]

The CCP has no regard at all for environmentalism. Or what we would consider safe or fair labor practices. Many of the most progressive brands in the West have their manufacturing done by child and slave labor. This is not a secret.

There's nothing more hypocritical than people in the Western world trying to environmentally justify their recreational activities. I was banned from Bikepacking.com for pointing this out...that you can't brag about your compassion and low carbon footprint while flying to Peru to mountain bike around developing world misery.

 

[Harold]

there's also a lot that the company gets to dictate to the factory in how things are made. so that factory might be making product A to one specification, product B on a different line will be made to another. how well things go depends a lot on how well the company monitors the factory. same goes for QC. If you're not keeping tabs on your factory, then they'll slip things by.

Still, is the cert better than no cert? Probably. Does it mean that the factory is 100% following the standards of the cert? Probably not, and how much depends on how well the company in questions supervises production.

 

[NorCal_In_AZ]

Generally, companies that sell (or claim too) higher quality products made in a foreign land have their own QC to uphold their products standards or claims of manufacturing. So yes it could be totally legit claim. Does it mean that same factory is doing that for every product made, no it doesn't.

 

[bingemtbr]

My professional experience with Chinese manufacturing varies. In 2007, the manufacturer I worked for traveled to China to determine if manufacturing was feasible. Their review was a nightmare and everything most westerners would expect. From a U.S. perspective, there were labor violations, safety-occupational health violations, and severe environmental issues. In the end, it was the low level of quality (within the finished product) which prevented the manufacturer from moving production to China.

In my recent professional life, I work with multiple manufacturers with factories in China. And its a complete 180 degree difference from 2007. Very good working conditions, very good safety, the factory is ISO certified, and the finished materials are superb. Responsible manufacturing in China is possible.

Then last night while doing some maintenance on my mtb, I noticed the "Made in China" sticker and kinda thought to myself, "wow, look how far China has come". China has a very healthy middle class and as a country has produced more billionaires than you'd imagine.

China's billionaires see biggest gains ever, adding more than $1.5 trillion to their fortunes

China minted 257 billionaires over the past year, bringing the total to 878, according to the Hurun Rich List 2020, which tracks wealth in China.

www.cnbc.com

 

[BadgerOne]

Then last night while doing some maintenance on my mtb, I noticed the "Made in China" sticker and kinda thought to myself, "wow, look how far China has come". China has a very healthy middle class and as a country has produced more billionaires than you'd imagine.

And as long as they toe the line and never question the state or have the wrong faith, they won't be 'disappeared' and/or re-educated or genocided (just made up that last word). But that's another topic for another time...

Honestly knowing all this stuff, I'm pretty disgusted that these companies that love to spout off about their virtuosity and nobility and concern, continue to thoughtlessly manufacture there. But we can all make our own choices about buying products from specific countries of origin, assuming they are available from anywhere else.

 

[ransom208]

I have been importing products from asia to sell in the USA for many years. As have been alluded to above, the quality in asia has gone up immensly. One main reason alot of manufacturering won't be coming back to the USA is our environmental laws. Alot of companies are investing in high end machinery to produce better goods, but the permits would never fly here, so the companies are building very modern factories overseas. Alot of these factories have basically employ towns in them. Housing, food, entertainment ect. Basically company towns,with schools and hospitals. My own feeling is country of origin, does not dictate quality. price point usually does. Now what has happened in the last year is the cost of shipping from asia. Decmeber of 2020 i paid $4,400 to have a container brought to me., that was just the freight. March of 21, $7100. Today $17,450. If you wonder why prices are going up, well there is part of it.

 

[ransom208]

So a certain company's web site says its meeting the highest social/enviro standards but at least the one product I bought is stamped as made in China. Not Taiwan like many carbon products but good old mainland Gina. Somehow I find that claim hard to believe. For what I paid I was sure this was made in USA.

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View attachment 1952966

some websites are very good with marketing, putting in just the right buzz words to make the customer feel good. It is all about branding.

 

[prj71]

For what I paid I was sure this was made in USA.

If it was, you would have paid twice as much.

 

[bingemtbr]

This article just bounced into my inbox. A current perspective on manufacturing in China.

After years of 'Made in China,' suppliers look to alternatives

The risks of single sourcing from China have been brewing for years, but they bubbled up even more during the COVID-19 pandemic.

www.constructiondive.com

 

[TooTallUK]

China bad!
But what about the US and the labor issues there?
That's not patriotic. China bad!

 

[BadgerOne]

This article just bounced into my inbox. A current perspective on manufacturing in China.

After years of 'Made in China,' suppliers look to alternatives

The risks of single sourcing from China have been brewing for years, but they bubbled up even more during the COVID-19 pandemic.

www.constructiondive.com

It is good to hear people are finally waking up to the problems and risks and looking for alternatives, but the door to free trade with China swung open nearly thirty years ago and the writing has been on the wall since then. Why did it take covid for these knuckleheads to suddenly become enlightened and see the obvious after three decades?

As for stateside regs, I don't think they are typically that onerous for specialty manufacturing though I could be wrong (most are around energy production), but the states themselves often have their own much more stringent regs. Looks to me like China could stand to adopt a few more themselves. I'm no greenie, but this is nasty.

 

[Jayem]

Here's the problem with a cert like this - you can't say they meet the standard at all times. They may clean up their act when applying or refreshing a cert, but let things slide a little differently day to day. It's the like the whole 'made from milk from cows not treated with rBST growth hormone'. Food producers have to take the farmer's word for it, there is no test to verify.

And of course, there is carbon in general as you show in the picture. The enviromental footprint for carbon production is at least twice that of any other material used in bikes even with modern production, and at the end of its lifecycle it can't be recycled or broken down, so the rating seems bunk from the outset.

Yeah, that never happens with US companies...

Alu mining and smelting is extremely energy intensive...I call BS. CF can be recycled, into CFRP type products.