REVIEWS DEALS BIKESHOPS TRAILS

Can a coil be supportive and playful

4883 Views 19 Replies 15 Participants Last post by Mudguard, Jan 1, 2022

wishiwasbiking

Discussion Starter · Dec 30, 2021

I’ve always been coil curious, but wary of giving up the playfulness of my bike. Right now I am riding an sb140 and would describe its suspension as very supportive and playful. I’m considering a cane creek db il shock with a sprindex shock. Will the coil turn the bike into a groundhugger, or is it possible to keep the support and energetic feel of the bike?

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teK--

· #2 · Dec 30, 2021

if it is already very supportive and playful (what u want), when why would you want to change to coil?

u could also consider the cane creek progressive wound coils to keep some of the playfulness.

joecx

· #3 · Dec 30, 2021

With the amount of progression, or lack there of on the SB140, you will need a progressive spring though that won't help much with mid support with the fairly flat leverage rate for the first 70% of travel of your bike.

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wishiwasbiking

Discussion Starter · #4 · Dec 30, 2021

teK-- said:
if it is already very supportive and playful (what u want), when why would you want to change to coil?

u could also consider the cane creek progressive wound coils to keep some of the playfulness.

More a curiosity, I keep hearing about the small bump compliance of a coil and it’s something that I haven’t tried. The sprindex coil is progressive so I am hoping it will keep the playfulness. You can also adjust the spring rate on the sprindex so I am thinking I can run a higher rate on more flowy type rides, and a lower rate in chunky terrain to make it plusher.

Honestly, I’m not fully sold, but exploring the idea now as my shock is due for a full rebuild.

wishiwasbiking

Discussion Starter · #5 · Dec 30, 2021

joecx said:
With the amount of progression, or lack there of on the SB140, you will need a progressive spring though that won't help much with mid support with the fairly flat leverage rate for the first 70% of travel of your bike.

Thats what I am thinking as well.

jpjp18

· #6 · Dec 30, 2021

I rode a sb150, have both air and coil shock(Sprindex). I would say coil can never feel like air and vice versa the other way round. However, my coil is playful but never as agile as air could be. The main thing is the difference how air and coil deal with progression, progressive spring's curve will never be like something you can tune with spacers in air. Finding the exact progressive curve you want might be very hard unless you try it out individually.

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Danzzz88

· #7 · Dec 30, 2021

It can by having compression damping low, spring rate high and rebound fast but it won't be as composed. But it's certainly possible to make a coil more poppy. It depends on if you mean poppy by having midstroke support to push against in which case a coil will do better than air or if you mean from compressing the suspension deep on more progressive setups and letting the spring itself create the pop. Some coils designed to stay planted and composed like the 11.6 will not be as poppy as some others due to their digressive rebound damping though a lot still say the 11.6 is poppy....so you are always going to get different opinions from whoever you ask.

plummet

· #8 · Dec 30, 2021

Buy one, fit it and ride. Then you will know.
Keep the air shock and swap them out on different rides when you want different styles.

Don't try to make the coil like an air shock. It will be more planted. So what, thats a good thing!
A SB140 will still be playful.

What will you gain? rough riding suppleness. Offcamber tracking and general reliable feel.
Another advantage of coil for those blessed with long descents, the spring retains similar performance even on the longest silliest descents. Air shocks heat up increasing the internal air pressure causing harshness on longer descents. You typically don't notice... but wonder why rode the top section well then struggled on the bottom..... air shock pump up!

If you have rough tracks them a coil is glorious. If you have a smoothed bike park with berms and jumps with little rough sections then a coil won't be an advantage.

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racefit

· #9 · Dec 30, 2021

DVO Topaz?

Many comment on it being the most “coil like” of the air shocks.

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Cary

· #10 · Dec 30, 2021

racefit said:
DVO Topaz?

Many comment on it being the most “coil like” of the air shocks.

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I would not consider a Topaz coil like. It is the opposite, a very lively and poppy feeling shock. Mara Pro, Fox X2, and the Cane Creek double barrel air shocks have much more planted and coil like feel. None are “right”, it is rider preference and how well matched to the bike they are put on.

Jayem

· #11 · Dec 30, 2021

I have an EXT that is overdamped right now, it is pretty wild, works like an air shock.

What you miss with a coil is that ability to just hug terrain and all the little irregularities, while cornering, clawing off-camber and in other traction-limited situations. The air shock bounces more, ricochets more, slides more, but you don't really overtly notice this...till you go ride the coil shock. Then you are able to use that traction most often to go faster.

I never really subscribe to the "poppy" thing, either your damping is correct for your riding and weight, or it's not. If you can't make a jump or pop off of something, it's because you are going too slow or you chose some 29er mega travel rig that is a dog to accelerate and get off the ground. Sometimes in ultra choppy and rocky terrain some faster rebound and settings make sense, but you still get to situations where you need a lot of support, big g-outs, drops, just having the necessary chassis stability, instead of the front end dipping, diving and dodging all over the place because you are running everything "fast". Unfortunately, a lot of this is often limited by OEM shock tuning, which in many cases is still poor or not really matched to the bike/rider.

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joecx

· #12 · Dec 30, 2021

The Sprindex is "progressive" but it is all in the last 20% of it's travel and then you hit a wall of progression. Looking at the leverage chart on your bike, Yeti SB140 27.5'' 2020, you can see that it gets very progressive in the last 20 mm of travel combined with the Sprindex you will have rebound problems deep in the travel if you can use it.

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Ratt

· #13 · Dec 31, 2021

The Sprindex feels progressive compared to a standard Valt spring. I am still trying to get used to the feel. When the progressiveness of the bike meet the progressive spring it sort of feels like i have too many volume spacers in the shock.

joecx said:
The Sprindex is "progressive" but it is all in the last 20% of it's travel and then you hit a wall of progression. Looking at the leverage chart on your bike, Yeti SB140 27.5'' 2020, you can see that it gets very progressive in the last 20 mm of travel combined with the Sprindex you will have rebound problems deep in the travel if you can use it.

The CC IL has a hsr adjustment and you can tune the deep rebound out. Ya it can deaden the bike a little.

Dougal

· #14 · Dec 31, 2021

Of course, it's all in the tuning.

Sanchofula

· #15 · Dec 31, 2021

Dougal said:
Of course, it's all in the tuning.

Okay, I agree with the tuning, but air is much more progressive which is why they feel more “poppy” than a coil, vice versa it’s why a coil feels more “grounded”.

Is there a coil that does both, or are we seeking to make a coil like air and air like a coil?

cookieMonster

· #16 · Jan 1, 2022

I’ve been riding coil at both ends for 10 years and I find it plenty playful. I run a little faster rebound than a lot of folks. I sometimes slow it down a hair for really steep terrain.

I just bought a new bike though, which has air at both ends. My coil fork for it will arrive in a couple days…😉

Dougal

· #17 · Jan 1, 2022

Nurse Ben said:
Okay, I agree with the tuning, but air is much more progressive which is why they feel more “poppy” than a coil, vice versa it’s why a coil feels more “grounded”.

Is there a coil that does both, or are we seeking to make a coil like air and air like a coil?

The progression isn't as significant as most people think. Air gives a different spring-rate on compression and rebound, softer on rebound. Coil is the same both ways. But IMO it's all about the shock tuning. Shocks like the Ohlins TTX22M have a lot of LSC and that makes the shock feel dead and also encourages riders to run spring-rates that're too soft. The result is a lack of pop.
Rebound tuning is also huge. Shocks like the CC DB and Fox DHX2 you can tailor the rebound shape and it's very easy to accidentally make them feel dead. The RS Super Deluxe Coil feel kinda dead out the box.

My old favourite bike is coil both ends (2001 Turner 5 Spot Prototype with 6" rockers, Fox Van RC and Nixon TPC fork) and is way more poppy and playful than my current bike (Knolly Warden LT with Mara and 170mm Mezzer). I was lucky enough to be able to ride them back to back on a bike park day last year. The Knolly is flatter, faster and way more composed. The Turner is more poppy, playful and rocks around a lot. The Turner was a long bike back in it's day.

Getting a great feel is about the right spring and damper rates. If one of those is out the riders tend to compensate with the others and everything gets worse.

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Suns_PSD

· #18 · Jan 1, 2022

I don't have tons of experience on coils, but did spend a lot of time trying to dial in one that's commonly considered one of the best, if not the best.
My coil didn't do much anything better than an air shock. Didn't track the ground better, wasn't plush, didn't hold up well to large hits, etc.
I'd never bother with a coil again unless I'm starting with 35%+ progression rate, and a rather low beginning LR. For instance the Stanton Switch9er with a 42% progression rate and a rather low starting LR around 2.0 as I recall.

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Danzzz88

· #19 · Jan 1, 2022

Also rebound tunes probably have a lot to do with it...some rebound tunes are more digressive than others. Additionally more progressive frames generally tend to run more wheel sag...this aswell will mean the wheel is more reluctant to leave the ground as there is more negative travel available. So I can't say I agree more progressive linkages are more poppy. My SB6 with linear rate linkage was a lot more poppy than my sb165...not because of spring energy but because of lower wheel sag and linear linkages creating more of a midstroke to push against.

Mudguard

· #20 · Jan 1, 2022

Suns_PSD said:
I don't have tons of experience on coils, but did spend a lot of time trying to dial in one that's commonly considered one of the best, if not the best.
My coil didn't do much anything better than an air shock. Didn't track the ground better, wasn't plush, didn't hold up well to large hits, etc.

That's a bit annoying. I have several shocks for several bikes. My TTX I've had on my Enduro for a few years, I had the Fox CTD, still have a Monarch Plus and CC DB Inline. And everytime I out an air shock on (which is only when I have Coil serviced) I think why would I ever leave them on full time. Coil has always felt velcro'd to the ground. Maybe I'm too used to it, but air always feels like a skittery mess.
And being blunt the CC Inline air I can never be bothered tweaking as it needs an Allen key for each setting. I like to ride 200-300m at a time and dial LSC back and forth a click when I'm setting up for example.

And being honest I've never looked to see if my bike should be running coil or not. I just looked at the catalogue and Ohlins made the shock for it so I bought!

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