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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Summary: I used to have a 2014 Camber Evo which I loved. Did it all. Needed more, got an Enduro 29, too much, got a 2016 Stumpy comp carbon 29 which I also love. I've modded it with a 1x11 setup, and Traverse Fattie wheels and a Fatbar, otherwise stock.

Do a few races, and have an Epic WC 29" for those, but lately (with age) I hardly do anything but adventure-type trail races where speed isn't all, it's more about the fun and yoo-hoo without collapsing.
The Epic is bloody fast, but also nervous and twitchy, even if I upgraded the fork to 110mm and RCT3. I've only raced the Stumpy once, and it worked a treat, even though I know I'd be faster on the Epic.

So what I wanted was to sell the Epic, and get a Camber for those long trail-races. Thing is, seems like the Epic has fallen somewhat out of rockstar-status where I live, and I'd rather not give it away for peanuts.

So...rather than getting a 3rd bike (and a divorce), I'm thinking of modding the Stumpy for those races. Normally I use it for fairly rough trails, enduro-ish downhills etc, where it excels.

Plan: fit lightweight carbon wheels from Epic, tubeless Fast Trak 2.3s, and a 75mm stem to get a bit lower (I'm 6.2" on a large frame, so no problems running a slightly longer stem), and swap to a larger chainring.
Stuff an RCT3 unit in the Revelation fork, and up the damper pressures.

Has anybody tried this? I'm really curious if this setup would make it much slower than a Camber.
 

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I race the Camber XC. It's pretty much perfect although a bit heavy.

The Epic is a dated joke. Near road bike geo etc. You'll have to throw a lot of $ at the Camber to get it under 26lb. Honestly if I were you I would buy an upper end Scott Spark like what Nino rides. The geo is close to the Camber yet it's lighter than an Epic.
 

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The Epic is a dated joke. Near road bike geo etc.
Wow! "Dated Joke" That's how it's an olympic winner in 2012, the current frame an 2016 olympic silver medalist, and multiple world cup wins and regularly runs at the front??

Stick to your Camber!

Sorry, this ain't helping the chap with his camber / frankenstumpy problem.

Happy Holidays :)
 

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It's utterly pointless to compare the race results of pros with bike technology. That said, I recommend replay watching any of the World Cups to see how much of a nightmare Specialized riders seem to be having on the descents.

The Scott Spark is 2 degrees slacker HA, and if you really want to bring pro results into it? It's fair to say that bike cleaned up.

My point is the Camber is too heavy for XC racing, even though the geo is perfect, but it's still an amazing trail bike. The Epic is absolutely crippled by its geo. Specialized simply don't have a contemporary XC race bike.

The Stumpy, with its heavier rear end, won't even be as light as a Camber. I would keep the Stumpy with proper tires and components as it should be and sell the Epic for a Spark or a maybe Camber with a carbon seat/chainstay. The Epic is only going to be worth less at the end of next season as everything will be Boost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hah, well - is the Stumpy really that much heavier than the Camber? I'm not so sure that matters. It's not that much heavier than my Epic anyway. For me, a lot is about pedalling efficiency, and a proper light wheelset does wonders in my book. And modding the Stumpy as suggested is only 10 mins of work in the garage, and reversible in the same time. I got rid of the Camber and got the Stumpy because I started riding in the mountains with lots of DH/enduro-style trails, and found myself riding it too hard. Killing forks, chainstays etc.

Anyway, in defence of the Epic, wouldn't be fair to say it's bad. It's seriously fast, but you really need to be 110% on it to not get caught out. Yes, a couple of degrees slacker HA would make it perfect for me (and what I got done to the fork certainly helped). But it's not a trail bike - it's XC. I've raced it on 10 hr trail races, which it rocked. I've done XC marathon races just as fast as I did with a superlight hardtail, with less effort. But the forward position and long stem is not how I want it as an amateur who has no other ambitions than having fun, and going as fast as I dare.

When I raced the Stumpy, it was in a very tech trail marathon. Fab trails split up occasionally by short gravel sections. For a couple of hours, I rode in a group running Scalpels, Epics, Sparks etc, and they would gobble me up on the gravel and climbs, but I'd totally destroy them on the trails - and our results at the finish would be about the same.
 

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Speaking new 2017, main weight diffs between Camber n SJ are tires and forks.

There's a few pounds there. There may be another half pound summed up from all the other components combined, but that's a stretch on the '17s..
 

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Even though the seatstay on the Camber is supposed to be a bit lighter you're probably right that there is little weight difference. Another argument against the Camber and Stumpy sharing frames I guess. The Camber seat angle is a degree steeper so it'll feel more urgent on steeper climbs.

I had this argument with a Specialized employee at Crankworx last year. As long as a bike has a steep seat angle there is zero downside to slacker head tube angles on XC race bikes. I reckon I could build a Spark up with a dropper and a good 120mm fork and it'd still be under 24lbs. Camber geo and 23 something pounds would be perfect for XC racing in BC. That bike doesn't exist in the Specialized world.

Anyway rant over :)
 

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I can see why it was an argument. I'd side with the Specialized employee.
I agree with jcl entirely (Scott spark, cannondale scalpel, Rocky Mountain element, kona hei hei, etc). Just because the guy works for specialized doesn't make him God. In fact he may agree with jcl's point but have to stand by "the company".
 

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I'm not agreeing with the Specialized guy because he works for Specialized. I'm agreeing with his point of view regarding the relative effects of head tube angle and seat tube angle.
 

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I race a Camber in XC races. At first it was a 110mm travel, 25.5 lb build, carbon wheels, post, bars, 2.25 ralphs. Good race bike, but was a bit sketchy as a trail bike going fast. Its my do all bike, so last year I went to a 120mm Pike from a factory Fox 32, added a dropper, and got the Evo link.
Now its 27lbs, but I am faster on it, a lot of my local races are fairly techy, the dropper helps a ton, and I like the added confidence with the Pike.
I simply enjoy it more, and the reality is, its not really any slower for me in my 2 hour races.
 

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Agree completely on the Spark talk. Specialized are currently without a modern XC bike. I ditched my Epic for a Trek Top Fuel, which is superior in so many ways as a race bike. Plus it's actually fun to ride when not racing unlike the Epic. Same story with the new Scott Spark. Sell the Epic while it's worth anything. It will only get even more worthless, especially with the MTB community finally putting the nail in the Brain coffin. Apart from a few die hard Specialized fanboys, nobody wants a Brain shock. For damn good reason. Take the hit. Buy the Spark.
 

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I've been watching XC races from SoCal while I ride the rollers. It seems like half the guys in each race are on Epics, and the races have a LOT of fire roads or very smooth singletrack. I've only seen one guy on an Epic where l live and he was struggling in the rough stuff.

There are a lot of other bikes I'd consider over an Epic or Camber. Epic has old geometry, Camber would require a lot of money to get it down to an acceptable weight.

Scott Spark at 120/120mm, Trek Top Fuel with 120mm fork, Yeti ASRc, etc.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

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I had exact same feelings as OP, namely got sucked into the lightness and efficiency of the epic in 2012 and bought one for racing. The bike just plain beat me up in our rough conditions though, and significantly slowed my descending. Sold the epic frame and fork.
Bought a 2016 FSR S works stumpy frame and transferred over most of my epic parts, w/ a 140 mm pike fork. Thought that would be plenty of travel. Had already converted epic to 1 x 11 and used that also, with a 65 mm travel KS dropper post with remote, and 20 mm rise carbon handlebar, with 2.35 Snake Skin Nobby Nic on the front and specialized purgatory 2.3 grid on the rear.
I'm pretty light at 145 pounds and I've never broken the Epic light weight wheelset so I figured why go to heavier wheels? Bike weighs 24.5 pounds as described, 23.6 pounds with straight up carbon seatpost without dropper.
Still wished for better control on fast, harsh descents and so at the first fork servicing I switched out the stock 140mm air spring for a 160 mm one, which reduced head angle to 66.5°. Changed to 170 mm crank arms to avoid so many pedal strikes since the bottom bracket got lowered. I could not believe the improved handling of the bike on enduro courses. What an improvement over the stock 140mm fork. Makes me wonder why all bikes don't have longer travel in the front suspension compared to the rear?
My riding partner bought a stock stumpjumper because I got so much faster with my custom build, but he is not that happy with the stock build because the descents really give him a lot of hand pump and backache having to muscle the bike around so much whereas I can just flow over the rough stuff.
So for rough Enduro type courses I think I have the best bike but because the weight is pretty light I think I also have an excellent race bike. Could get under 23 pounds even by losing the dropper post, lighter/skinnier tires, and a few other changes but I like it as it is.
The real advantage in my opinion to being lightweight yourself is that you can build a very lightweight do it all fun bike with a custom build that employs the newer geometry concepts (slacker/longer w/ shorter stem/wider bars, 160/140 travel) without adding all the weight. I know my tires are heavy but with our unforgiving, rugged, solid lava rock terrain we really need them. Stone just don't give!
 

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I put a new SID RCT3 120 with 51OS on my Epic WC and it made huge difference in comfort and control going fast through very rough terrain (Downieville). Love the speed of the Epic but hated the brain fork. Loving my "trail" Epic. Also running a dropper and 2.3 tires. Here is my post on my Epic
2015 Epic Sworks WC "Trail" Edition- Mtbr.com
 
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