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I've had a Pliny
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is the California State Parks Foundation a friend of mountain bikers? Any mtb organizations (IMBA) have any dealings with them?

From what I can find on their website ("I read it on the interwebs"), there are a number of bike-friendly articles. Here's a nice one about a 2011 Annadel race: Bikers Race against Park Closures

Their Board of Trustees are a bevy of big-money people. They must give a boatload to (read: greatly influence) the parks. If they're bike-friendly, they may be a good organization to be involved with. I'm thinking I'm going to join.

Call to Action for photographers: submit photos of mtb in state parks to the CSPF "Share Your Great Places" campaign on their website. A lot of mountain biking pictures would be a good message: Great Places
 

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I've had a Pliny
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400 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
We used to work with them here in SLO. We stopped when they turned away anyone under 16, even accompanied by a parent. (...) We are a bike group with hiker and equestrian members, and the Foundation just wants volunteers, I've never seen bias of any kind, except youth. :(
Thanks for the feedback. Too bad about not allowing the kids. Must be an insurance thing?

A bike group with equestrians?! What kind of parallel universe are you living in?! Lion sleeping with the lamb! Kidding (but it would be unusual to see such a group in some areas of NorCal). How is it that your group has equestrians in it - they don't see mtn bikes as a threat/danger/nuisance?
 

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mtb'er
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My only experience with CSPF was attending Park Advocacy Day last year (PAD 2014)... where park users/advocates lobby our legislators and discuss issues and bills that are important to the health of our State Park system. This group isn't necessarily focused on trails as much is they are supporting the bigger picture: Keeping parks open, protected and maintained. But trail and trail users are certainly part of all that.

I'd wager that the organization isn't anti-bike by any means, but the folks who showed up last year (which isn't necessarily representative of the CSPF staff) certainly had many blue haired, card-carrying Sierra Club types... including Mr. Vandeman. Generally, everyone was cool and passionate about keeping our State Parks healthy. I did give one person crap at a booth CSPF set up on the Capitol lawn... they had all sorts of posters/signs of different state parks, including the iconic hiker and equestrian logos you see on trail signs. They didn't have a mt. bike logo. It was all in fun, but I made my point ;)

My biggest take-away from the Park Advocacy Day was not schmoozing with bubble-headed politicians (or their underlings) who just nod their head and say what they think you want to hear... but it was making a cool connection with the top dog, Major General Jackson. He's a stud. He understands trail issues and that mt. bikers belong. :thumbsup:

Like everything else, if you/we don't get involved with these types of groups as mountain bikers looking after the best interest of mountain biking, we have less of a voice and our needs and desires can be overlooked simply because non-mt. bikers don't care about us. We're a fairly misunderstood bunch.

The prez of FATRAC will be attending Park Advocacy Day on May 6th. Hopefully more mt. bikers signed up.
 

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I've had a Pliny
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400 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
My only experience with CSPF was attending Park Advocacy Day last year (PAD 2014)... where park users/advocates lobby our legislators and discuss issues and bills that are important to the health of our State Park system.

My biggest take-away from the Park Advocacy Day was not schmoozing with bubble-headed politicians (or their underlings) who just nod their head and say what they think you want to hear... but it was making a cool connection with the top dog, Major General Jackson. He's a stud. He understands trail issues and that mt. bikers belong. :thumbsup:

Like everything else, if you/we don't get involved with these types of groups as mountain bikers looking after the best interest of mountain biking, we have less of a voice and our needs and desires can be overlooked simply because non-mt. bikers don't care about us. We're a fairly misunderstood bunch.

The prez of FATRAC will be attending Park Advocacy Day on May 6th. Hopefully more mt. bikers signed up.
Thanks for the info: Glad to hear FATRAC prez will be in attendance. If the new website is any indicator, he's pretty articluate. Looks like registration is closed - I would have made a case to be there.

The expo would be a perfect location for the IMBA tent.
 

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mtb'er
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You could still inquire if they have a spot open... just the online registration is closed. People will no-show, so if you want to participate, I can't imagine they'd turn any volunteer away. I recall you pay $20, and if you attend PAD, you get your $ back. If you no-show, they keep your donation ;)

There wasn't exactly an expo... just one 10'x10' CSPF tent on the lawn.

p.s. You get a pretty good free lunch out of the deal!
 

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I've had a Pliny
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You could still inquire if they have a spot open... just the online registration is closed.

There wasn't exactly an expo... just one 10'x10' CSPF tent on the lawn.
I'll check the work schedule and call if it's clear. Looks like the expo may be new this year. At any rate I can show up and crash the lunch (working a few blocks from there).
 

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I'm really diggin it!
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Nope, no threat. Here we are friends, true friends. We socialize some, and rally for trail access together. Hikers, runners, mountain bikers, equestrians know that we all get more trails, new trails, better trails if we cooperate. We have been doing this for 27 years, cooperating, being nice. We have a bell program that made a tremendous difference. Bells4Bikes

We do group rides / hikes. In these pictures are two of three IMBA founders, a major equestrian group president from Marin county, a major bike advocacy president from Marin county, two members of the California State Parks Trails and Greenways organizers, and many other trail enthusiasts. We had equestrians from areas where they do not get along, and they were blown away, and have since become advocates from trail sharing in there areas of NorCal, central and SoCal / San Diego. :devil:
Just out of curiosity which equestrian group from Marin County? Marin Horse Council? They are pretty good at deceiving others. Hate to rain on your parade but you should read what Monte Kruger wrote last month about sharing trails with mountain bikers:

http://www.marinij.com/letterstotheeditor/ci_25299434/marin-readers-forum-march-8
 

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I'm really diggin it!
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Too bad the few have dragged you down to their level of hater status. There are few mountain bikers who cause trail conflicts with hikers, equestrians, other bikes. There are few equestrians who cause problems for other trail users. But those few have drug you down to their angry, bile spewing level, so you see the good examples as rare occurrences to be countered, and dwell on the bad interactions as if that is all there is. Very sad, I feel sorry for you. Illigitimi tatum non carborundum.

These are other areas where trail users cooperate.
Multi Use - YouTube

MTB Horse Trail Etiquette Clinic - YouTube

Here are two presentations from the California State Parks Trails and Greenways Conference worth reading to see the positive approach to trail sharing.

http://www.parks.ca.gov/pages/795/files/2010 trail partnerships.pdf

http://www.parks.ca.gov/pages/795/files/a trail community for all.pdf
Sir,

I'm sorry you feel the need to call me names. I'm just sticking with facts. Also you have not answered my question: Is the Marin County equestrian group in the above photo from the MHC or not?

Just as an FYI this is what the president of the MHC wrote just one month ago about sharing the trails:

From Marin IJ readers forum March 8th:

"TRAILS

Safety can't be ignored

Vernon Huffman (Marin Voice, March 4) should ask why there is limited access for mountain bikes on the county's trails.

The answer is that it is hazardous to put mountain bikes and hikers and horses, as well as wildlife, together on narrow trails.

Mr. Huffman completely ignores that fact, and that is the key issue he should address.

Mountain bikes have no more "right" to increased access than drag racers have a "right" to race on public streets.

Peace on Marin's trails would turn Marin's trails into pieces.

Monte Kruger, Novato"

If you don't believe me just click the link that I posted earlier. Also if you could refrain from name calling that would be nice too. I'm just sticking with facts. I'm stoked for your situation in SLO. I'm quite envious of it really. It would be great to get along well with the MHC but they are very disingenuous.

Best of luck.
Davey
 

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It's about showing up.
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Slocaus SLO is not Marin. Michael Kelley is determined that we can get along but he speaks to a lot of choirs and tables and those outside the Bay Area.

The MHC has dealt a lot of negative info and is very close to land managers and the local newspaper. The have also been double-dealing in their relationship with MCBC and MCOSD. This stuff isn't made up. Making nice does nothing; they keep hammering away with the negativity.
 

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I've had a Pliny
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Didn't expect this thread to illicit so much. Passionate bunch around here.

Our family vacation is a trip down the coast this summer. I think SLO is a new stopover point.

What's most interesting to me is successes Slocaus describes in SLO - sounds like the land of milk and honey. I know it's not ground zero like Marin but it is helpful to see what strategies/tactics work in other places - like the Bell program.

And, like Empty Beer says, it's important to get engaged with all the players just to make the mtb community known. "Put a face to it".
 

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It's about showing up.
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Slocaus, please lose the sarcasm; it lacks the dignity of good discussion by major representatives of these issues.

I cannot understand why you refuse to acknowledge how different things are here. I guess because you are not here. The successes you have in SLO are enviable and they work there for many good reasons. Methods like Kelley's look good when they work but IMBA will tell you that they only work where they can. Those factors are simply not operative here.

What's worse is you attribute the failure to some willful obnoxiousness from mountain bikers and are dismissive. And that is insulting to all of us here who have to do so much just to keep the peace, let alone try to move forward.

Have you ever heard us speak at meetings and to boards? No. Have you been with us for the last 27 years building and maintain trails we can't even use? Again; no. Were you with us when we rode with horse groups? Are you with us when we ride with park executives? No & no.

We are working with people who are using political chicanery and media attacks to undermine us by smearing, misrepresenting, double-dealing, enjoying institutional privileges and financial leveraging. We didn't set the up, much of it has been in place for years. As for the behavior, we aren't making this stuff up.

What you read here is that people are pissed about it and tired of it. What we do politically is far more refined, focused, and measured.
 

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I cannot understand why you refuse to acknowledge how different things are here. I guess because you are not here. The successes you have in SLO are enviable and they work there for many good reasons. Methods like Kelley's look good when they work but IMBA will tell you that they only work where they can. Those factors are simply not operative here.

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Ain't that the truth. I lived in the SLO area from 2007 to 2010 and put in some trail days with CCCMB, including a few Superbowl Sundays where I worked side by side with equestrians, hikers, college kids, and bikers. What a spirit of cooperation. Rode a lot while I was there and always had a good experience when meeting with equestrians. Smiles, waves, and a "Have a Great Day!". Moved to Marin in 2010 and was amazed at the difference. I actually even made some comments that Mtn Bikers here need to work with the equestrians and get the benefits that all sides receive down South. I was told "This isn't SLO and you're naïve". While nearly all my experiences with equestrians ON THE TRAILS have been great....the attitude from the local stable owners and MHC have been so antagonistic that I truly don't see how Mtn bikers here can work with them. (I actually rarely encounter horses as I'm limited to Tamarancho, China Camp, and fire roads). After 4 years of being educated in the history and efforts made here for years I now basically say F%$# them and the horse they rode in on. Of course SLO isn't unique in the cooperation between different trail users. It's better just north of here in Annadel and everywhere else in California I've ridden (also lived for years in San Diego). The vitriol spewed from the MHC, some equestrians, and those stable owners whose living depends on access to public land has poisoned any chance of cooperation here in the near future.
It's bad enough that if bikes are continued denial of access to single track I'll continue going to meetings just to lobby to deny horses access on safety, pollution, and erosion issues.
 

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I'm really diggin it!
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Yes, I have been on a bike with members of the MHC on horses at least three times at CA Trails and Greenways conference multi user events. They have had some epiphanies of trail sharing, but were probably shouted down by their peers, like the NorCal people do when I post positive things here, reminding me that SLO is an anomaly and the rest of the world hates mountain bikes on the trails, refuses to share, and persecutes them endlessly. (sic)

Davey, I sincerely apologize. I do not see where I was calling you names, but I apologize. I was attempting to address your considerable frustration, not you personally.

If the "Illigitimi Tatum Non Carborundum" bothered you, it loosely translates to "Don't let the bastards wear you down", and was intended as encouragement.

I have followed your posts for some time, the frustrations with the biker on your Flow trail. I have tremendous respect for you.
Not bothered by latin, google translate is fine thanks. It's not my flow trail it belongs to the community that built it.
 
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