Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
21 - 40 of 417 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
I too helped on that trail work day, there was a ton of support from the MTB community, sad that no more work days were ever scheduled.

I have been riding at Calavera for the last 10 years, I have lived where I am for the last 9 and during those last nine make it a regular weekly ride.

During that time I have seen the effects of Fish n Game coming out and making a big show of management, new signs, new fences, tear down jumps, etc... Then nothing from them for 2-4 years, then they show up in force again. It feels like they are just putting on a show during budget season or for a new boss or something. They do not really seem to care enough about that area to ever engage the local community.

So what happens each time is they show up for a few days or weeks, write a few tickets, put up some signs, and then disappear and the trail users remove the fences, put the jumps back and tear down the signs.

Then things are golden again for a few years of self management by the trail users and no intervention from Fish n Game.

Where Sage Creek High School now sites also used to be "protected" land until the City needed a new School and all of a sudden the "protection" status was gone and a new school was put up. How long until the City decides it needs more low income housing to meet some quota and more of that land becomes developed? I do not trust the City of Carlsbad to have trail users best interests in mind.

If SDMBA wants to make some sort of unified showing, I will be more than happy to use one of my ride days to hand out flyers to the hundreds of trail users I see out there to get some support.
The area where Sage Creek now sites was always owned by Carlsbad Unified School District and was not part of the Preserve. People need to understand that just because a parcel of property is not developed that does not mean that it is Designated Open Space.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,744 Posts
I too helped on that trail work day, there was a ton of support from the MTB community, sad that no more work days were ever scheduled.

I have been riding at Calavera for the last 10 years, I have lived where I am for the last 9 and during those last nine make it a regular weekly ride.

During that time I have seen the effects of Fish n Game coming out and making a big show of management, new signs, new fences, tear down jumps, etc... Then nothing from them for 2-4 years, then they show up in force again. It feels like they are just putting on a show during budget season or for a new boss or something. They do not really seem to care enough about that area to ever engage the local community.

So what happens each time is they show up for a few days or weeks, write a few tickets, put up some signs, and then disappear and the trail users remove the fences, put the jumps back and tear down the signs.

Then things are golden again for a few years of self management by the trail users and no intervention from Fish n Game.

Where Sage Creek High School now sites also used to be "protected" land until the City needed a new School and all of a sudden the "protection" status was gone and a new school was put up. How long until the City decides it needs more low income housing to meet some quota and more of that land becomes developed? I do not trust the City of Carlsbad to have trail users best interests in mind.

If SDMBA wants to make some sort of unified showing, I will be more than happy to use one of my ride days to hand out flyers to the hundreds of trail users I see out there to get some support.
Volunteered for one more trail day after that, a CNLM/FOC(whatever the org calss themselves)/city run affair that involved closing down and brushing over existing trails over near the power lines/gas pipeline road. Advertisement made it sound like something different, a couple other Dirttreaders there also. Never again after that.
 

· IPA tester
Joined
·
1,370 Posts
Looking at where all the new homes have been built lately, it seems every little "open space" of land is where they build 11- 15 homes crammed in there. It probably is only a matter of time for this area.

Mitigation land swaps happen and show what a joke the system really is. If an area that is protected natural habitat and then they want to build something on it so they swap some other parcel for it? BS...

"We'll ride it until they pave it."

-Urban Yeti
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,744 Posts
I tried and tried to get in touch with WW / DFW two years ago. I got bounced around and left messages for people with no result. I did talk to a woman who overseas streams etc. who told me I had to fill out paperwork and pay for a permit to do work. I explained I want to volunteer my time to maintain trails and she bounced me on to the next person...
Last time I saw/talked to WW was right before they put the fences in, he was scouting locations at the edge of the back 40 up from where the remaining bridge is at. He challenged me on private land, called him by name and tried talking to him a bit about the volunteer trail day on Mordor good old times etc but he just muttered something like; oh yeah SDMBA something, something. Don't think there's much there to persue unless it comes from the political side.
 

· IPA tester
Joined
·
1,370 Posts
Then there's the rogue anti-trail actors out there. Right behind the high school next to the make shift garbage dump. Freshly cut brushing material.

View attachment 1139014
I think it's a safe bet that this ^^^ wasn't done by any MTB'er or the garbage dumping. in fact, MTB'ers have picked up trash from that same area before.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
334 Posts
At next week's Quick and Dirty Summer Series kickoff race (June 1 at the Lake Hodges boat dock), we'll have info flyers and sign up sheet (mail list) for a Calavera Riders Action Group. The intent is to engage a large contingent of North County recreationists that would be impacted by being denied access. Tell two friends that tell two friends . . .

The city of Carlsbad lands are not under threat.

There's a map here:

http://www.carlsbadca.gov/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?BlobID=24047

The CDFW lands are two parcels. Carlsbad Highlands Reserve and Calavera Highlands Mitigation Parcel. The mitigation parcel is not necessarily subject to the same Section 550 regs as the reserve.

But . . .

I came across this 2003 Union Trib article

Preserves, reserves make room for nature - The San Diego Union-Tribune

States CDFW is providing a bike trail - by the letter of the law that allowance would need to fall in the Section 630 exceptions to the blanket bike ban.

That's good news in my book. There's a precedent of bikes being allowed.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
I'll help be part of a CRAG.

Seems like going up the management ladder in CDFW is a must.

Insult to injury, the city proposed a paved commuter path connecting Cannon in the 'trail' plans. Seems they have backed away from that a bit.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,744 Posts
At next week's Quick and Dirty Summer Series kickoff race (June 1 at the Lake Hodges boat dock), we'll have info flyers and sign up sheet (mail list) for a Calavera Riders Action Group. The intent is to engage a large contingent of North County recreationists that would be impacted by being denied access. Tell two friends that tell two friends . . .

The city of Carlsbad lands are not under threat.

There's a map here:

http://www.carlsbadca.gov/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?BlobID=24047

The CDFW lands are two parcels. Carlsbad Highlands Reserve and Calavera Highlands Mitigation Parcel. The mitigation parcel is not necessarily subject to the same Section 550 regs as the reserve.

But . . .

I came across this 2003 Union Trib article

Preserves, reserves make room for nature - The San Diego Union-Tribune

States CDFW is providing a bike trail - by the letter of the law that allowance would need to fall in the Section 630 exceptions to the blanket bike ban.

That's good news in my book. There's a precedent of bikes being allowed.
There was for a time and if the Holly Springs Cantarini Ranch development ever starts up again, the plan was the "Natural Open Spaces" in the link below IIRC were to be managed by the DFW. This is indefinitely on hold however, the latest ongoing lawsuit news is on that website.

Edit added pics from link

Line World Colorfulness Map Atlas
White Line World Map Design


http://cantarini-hollysprings.com/
 

· Registered
Joined
·
334 Posts
I'll help be part of a CRAG.

Seems like going up the management ladder in CDFW is a must.

Insult to injury, the city proposed a paved commuter path connecting Cannon in the 'trail' plans. Seems they have backed away from that a bit.
Chatted w/Ben at SDMBA earlier and I understand his strategy. I see where we can supply ammo to support their 'ask'.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,744 Posts
Yeah, here's the mentality you're up against;

As for the mountain biking, it's never been allowed in the area anyway. But Wong says he would like to work with mountain bikers. "I'd really like to meet mountain bikers and see if they have ideas about trails," he says. "We can look. I have rules that I am bound by, but there may be places in this area that could be considered an access road."
Fish & Game Building Fences In Carlsbad
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,744 Posts
Haven't ridden there but aware of it, but they also have singletrack. Our guy doesn't seem to consider that he has discretion it seems. And I don't think he considers that most of the original trails were 2 track ranch roads. The first time I talked to WW on SDMBA Mordor trail work day, I asked point blank what he considered completely off limits and that was between the K-rails where the original gnatcatcher preserve was but signs there indicate that period is over. He didn't seem so anti at that point, something changed over the years, don't think he's even interested in the road idea anymore.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
I have ridden Crestridge. There are a lot of roads.....and some singletrack. I was fairly disappointed... When I was there, about a year ago, a lot of the singletrack/roads were in very bad condition. While appreciate that Crestridge allows Mountain Bikers and it's better than nothing, there's a reason that I've only ridden there once.....
 

· Registered
Joined
·
334 Posts
We need sec 630 to include provision for bikes at Carlsbad Highlands Eco Reserve. That requires a petition to CDFW Commission. The petition requires sound reasoning to grant the request of the petition.

For me that is fairly obvious. We have an Eco reserve in a (comparatively) densely populated area. Population figures, growth rate, those are numbers that are documented.

The growth plan for Carlsbad and surrounding communities are spelled out in their master plans.

The loss of open space is also there.

If we just consider that contiguous open space that exists today and how it is cut in half by the Holly Springs development PLUS the NEW residents that will now reside immediately adjacent - that's a lot of pressure out on reserve.

CDFW has to manage that reserve to best preserve it. Without stormtroopers locked arm to arm the public WILL enter. That is cost prohibitive. Trail systems are a passive means of regulating the traffic impact.

The counter argument always comes back to net habitat loss from trails. If the habitat loss has already happened, the situation is stable.

Holly Springs Enviro Plan

http://www.carlsbadca.gov/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?BlobID=24337
 

· Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
IF the area between the K-rail is the most important, that area could be restored and monitored by the community to show good faith.

The K rail was installed long ago because there was a moto track on that hillside.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,744 Posts
Luckily the legal situation on those parcels is so dicked up, it'll be years. Considering the original purchase for development was in `98 IIRC and all permits have lapsed.

April 25, 2017. In the case, Bentley-Wing Property W, LLC ("Bentley") vs. West Development, Inc. et al ("West"), the Court of Appeal, Fourth Appellate District, Division One, State of California, ruled 3-0 that WEST BREACHED THE CONTRACT; the judgment of the Superior Court is reversed and the matter is remanded for further proceedings. The Appellate Court ruling is a rebuke of the West-O'Brien-Klein team's misguided assertion that as Manager of Bent-West/Cantarini LLC West holds virtually unlimited powers. The breach of contract ruling against West enables Bentley to pursue claims for breach of fiduciary & breach of good faith and fair dealings.
The city recognizes what'll happen in the HMP, pretty much bans MTBs or really anything else. Not sure why they even pretend they'll keep kids out.

"There is only one pre-existing City multi-use trail on Cantarini Ranch that will remain in use within the northeastern open space area as a multi-use trail (see Figure 5). The PM will inspect the condition of this trail during the quarterly visits and inform the responsible entity (e.g., Property Owner, HOA, or City) of any trail maintenance needs."

"Recreational use is prevalent throughout the undeveloped open space areas of the city of Carlsbad, including pedestrian, bicycle, and motorized vehicles. The PM shall regularly survey for and report any unauthorized trespassing on the Cantarini Ranch Preserve to the City of Carlsbad Police Department. 'No Trespassing' signs will be placed at appropriate intervals along the interface between the development and the Cantarini Ranch Preserve. These will be inspected during the quarterly visits and replaced as necessary."

Here's Figure 5, the trail they speak of is the current 2-track that divides the two developments, in map it's the stubs at each end. Some even more strict language in the doc on trespassing.
Yellow Colorfulness Line Font Slope
 

· Registered
Joined
·
334 Posts
Thanks for looking at that! If this development is tied up (I downloaded some stuff at lunch - need to read it tonight) there might be room to revisit what they've got.

In my experience with being on various boards, often times reports are 'mail it in' efforts with 'and then a miracle happens' management plans. If no critical eye is put on them they sail thru the process. Report complete? Yup. Check the box. . .

RECON also prepared the report for Del Mar Mesa back in 2008 that was full of holes. As a result of the stink raised the whole study had to be repeated.

For trail advocates, getting involved with the developer early and getting trails built into their plans is critical. All enviro review, permitting cost is absorbed by the developer and are fastracked concurrent with approval for the development.

Truthfully from a network point of view we should look at the entire footprint (Lake Blvd to the North, College to the west, El Camino Real to the south and the N-S dirt road on the east.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,744 Posts
Thanks for looking at that! If this development is tied up (I downloaded some stuff at lunch - need to read it tonight) there might be room to revisit what they've got.

In my experience with being on various boards, often times reports are 'mail it in' efforts with 'and then a miracle happens' management plans. If no critical eye is put on them they sail thru the process. Report complete? Yup. Check the box. . .

RECON also prepared the report for Del Mar Mesa back in 2008 that was full of holes. As a result of the stink raised the whole study had to be repeated.

For trail advocates, getting involved with the developer early and getting trails built into their plans is critical. All enviro review, permitting cost is absorbed by the developer and are fastracked concurrent with approval for the development.

Truthfully from a network point of view we should look at the entire footprint (Lake Blvd to the North, College to the west, El Camino Real to the south and the N-S dirt road on the east.
The thing I keep noticing is how boiler plated all of these management plan docs are, makes it hard to take them seriously at times, not surprised there are gaping holes in these things. I doubt any of the flora/fauna surveys etc are fresher than 20 years old.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
7,061 Posts
Thanks for looking at that! If this development is tied up (I downloaded some stuff at lunch - need to read it tonight) there might be room to revisit what they've got.

In my experience with being on various boards, often times reports are 'mail it in' efforts with 'and then a miracle happens' management plans. If no critical eye is put on them they sail thru the process. Report complete? Yup. Check the box. . .

RECON also prepared the report for Del Mar Mesa back in 2008 that was full of holes. As a result of the stink raised the whole study had to be repeated.

For trail advocates, getting involved with the developer early and getting trails built into their plans is critical. All enviro review, permitting cost is absorbed by the developer and are fastracked concurrent with approval for the development.

Truthfully from a network point of view we should look at the entire footprint (Lake Blvd to the North, College to the west, El Camino Real to the south and the N-S dirt road on the east.
The thing I keep noticing is how boiler plated all of these management plan docs are, makes it hard to take them seriously at times, not surprised there are gaping holes in these things. I doubt any of the flora/fauna surveys etc are fresher than 20 years old.
As a developer you are looking for the shortest path to revenue. They don't care what happens to open space unless it will increase their values. That is not a negative thing, it is just reality and capitalism. Unless someone can prove to them that there is monetary value in having truly natural trails (not DG paths) as part of the development they will take the shortest path which is whatever they have done before. Unfortunately that is a very heavy lift and probably impossible unless someone can find an altruistic developer that wants to do something good for the community just because. It is interesting that La Costa is a land swap and they have maintained all of the pre-existing trails.

Sorry for the OT when we are talking about Cala, but it is the same problem. MTB's have made WW's life very difficult. His mandate from the state is the preserve open space, not provide recreational space. I wouldn't be surprised if he feels the same way about hikers at this point. To him everyone is a trespasser, so what is his motivation?
 
21 - 40 of 417 Posts
Top