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Cannondale Habit 2 Neo
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We keep paper maps in our cars. Too many times GPS views are too limiting.
 

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I am in the camp of paper maps are a needed backup. I have had to rely on them to use forest roads when main roads are closed. I have had to fall back on them when GPS is not giving a clear view or alternative nearby trails or needing to change a route mid ride. I can map a route out on a big computer screen, but can’t on a little screen, especially when someone is hurt and time matters. With a paper map, I can quickly ascertain where I am and the most efficient way to safety.

Then again, I always take more water than I expect to need, a foil space blanket, and a flint when I ride in the back country. Hopefully I never need them, but if I do, they are well worth the very small weight and space penalty of carrying them.
 

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The medical practice I work for in NY has 2 offices, literally 8 miles apart from each other. We have a ton of pts that will REFUSE to go to one office or the other. They will wait months longer to see a specific Dr in their desired office rather than drive 8 miles down the road.

I'm not talking calmly declining the other office. Throwing a tantrum at our front desk staff and acting like "how dare you" suggest they drive an extra 8 miles!
I see what you're saying but that's slightly misleading...An extra 8 miles in Eastern Suffolk County or somewhere Upstate is much different than 8 miles in the lower Eastside.
I'd like to think that PB stays true to its' core but after seeing how velonews changed I don't have high hopes.
 

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high pivot witchcraft
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Discussion Starter · #165 ·
the ones I have were sold by different Over The Edge shops. One in Sedona, and the other in Hurricane, UT. pretty tight weave on the fabric....I think velcro would have a hard time with it. they advertise them as being something you can clean your glasses with, or staunch bleeding. lol.
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A46CBB1E-DBDD-4786-BE5A-87B672DAA3F9.jpeg
 

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I guess I'd say, "Lots of things are allowed by law including mink farms, child pageants, medical bankruptcy, eMtbs....that doesn't make it right. There's so little wilderness left. Please do your part to keep wilderness 'wild', and keep your bike out."
Wilderness is far from pristine where I live or anywhere I've visited. Horses, free range sheep and cows. Adding bikes wouldn't change anything in regards to environmental impacts. Gated roads, and or large roadless areas will prevent shuttling and only those that want to earn their turns will really go backpacker deep into the backcountry. We can have bike access without changing anything "wild" about what we call wilderness in this country. Not sure where you live but here in CO we have 42 wilderness areas. Millions of aces! It's pretty silly ranchers can run sheep and cows on horseback but local's can't pedal a bike around? It makes no sense. If we were talking strict wilderness where nothing but walking was allowed I get your point but that's not what "wilderness" is in USA. If you want to talk about protecting some areas from all use other than foot traffic I can't get on board with that, but banning bikes in wilderness as wilderness stands these days is stupid.
 

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high pivot witchcraft
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Discussion Starter · #168 ·
I always seem to pick up some useful souvenirs along the way. That was certainly one.

I always try to carry paper/microfibre as a backup to TF. It will be even more important now after Outside reads my comments here and on PB. Lmao. One guy on PB says his TF subscription was cancelled last night. Probably not true but hey - who knows what will happen now…
 

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There's wilderness literally out my back door, here in Albuquerque. If bikes were allowed in it, there'd be an endless parade of shuttles to the summit, and downhilling on popular hiking trails. Then there'd be calls for additional trails and poof...."wilderness" gone.

Consider yourself extremely lucky to have that much unmechanized country where you live.
And that's why wilderness access would be state by state, area by area thing. Sorry to hear you're against access. I have zero confidence we'll get in because as a community we are split on this, and E bikes. You will get your way I'm sure, and will continue to drool over endless mountains I can't ride. Before this whole shi! house burns down from global warming I want to ride some real backcountry! Is that too much to ask? We have much bigger fish to fry when talking about the environment than worrying about bikes in "wilderness".
 

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No ****. MTBR classified section sucks balls.
Right. It was good 20 years ago. PB's buy sell is a jewel. I've sold tons and bought tons. It will be a real bummer if it goes to fees. I'll pay eBay fees before PB fees. At least with eBay I don't have to say "no, i don't want to trade for your x box".
 

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UZZI 275
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wtf? English, much?

so, how large of a screen are you carrying around with you that lets you see exactly the same things at the same scale as a foldable paper map? Where do you keep it?

Makes me wonder about the sort of background you have that qualifies you to tell me that my preferences in the uses of different map products is basically trash.

I've submitted quite a number of trails to digital mapping apps. Mostly mtbproject, but also some to trailforks. I've used survey-grade gps equipment and consumer grade gps equipment since right about the time that selective availability was turned off. I've been using digital mapping software since ArcView 3.1, and currently have my own personal ArcMap license on my home pc, which I have used to produce physical maps. These include maps for trailhead kiosks, event flyer route maps and cuesheets, and large format foldable paper trail maps. I also analyzed 30yrs of satellite imagery with yet another digital mapping program to quantify changes in land cover over that time period. I also teach map and compass skills for work.

In spite of all that, I still like paper maps that I can hold in my hand, and I still prefer to use them in certain situations. As I said before, it does not mean that I don't use map apps. They have their own (different) advantages.
Phone have zoom in or zoom out features, download maps and build in gps, background 10 years of competitive orienteering (paper map and compass)


Cheers
 

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since 4/10/2009
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Phone have zoom in or zoom out features, download maps and build in gps, background 10 years of competitive orienteering (paper map and compass)


Cheers
I still don't think your background qualifies you to tell me my preference in this matter is trash. or anyone's preference.

so how much of a trail system can you see if you zoom in on your phone? how much detail do you see when you zoom out to see the trail system? how much area does your phone screen let you look at at once before the whole trail system gets smooshed together? you simply cannot see it all at the same time from a phone screen. maybe if I dragged my 42" widescreen monitor from my desktop computer into the field. but even still, that's smaller than most foldable large format paper maps. with a quality paper map, I see all that I need to, without extra fiddling. especially in the sweaty southeast where phone screens like to ignore your touches or exaggerate them. or in bad lighting conditions where you can't see the screen. or you're trying to work with a group as mentioned earlier.

I have gone back and forth over using maps digitally or in print over the years through work and recreation. sometimes I don't have a choice in the matter. especially for work. but regardless of the extra tools digital devices bring, there are still things that paper maps do better.
 
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