[cubeman]

Hello,

I'm looking at a custom frame and have to make the up my mind on the dropouts.
On the GF Rig I ride now I have no negative things to say about the EBB.
For the new bike I have the option to use Bushnell EBB or Paragon sliders.
Don't know whats best or whats not good about both systems.
What I do know:
I know the Sliders can slip, but so does an EBB.
I know EBB kan creak, but so can Sliders
I know that EBB is a bit heavier than Sliders but not much.

Who can help me to make up my mind.

 

[2morrow]

I was in the exact same situation about a year ago. Came from a Rig which I loved going to a custom. I went with sliders mainly because I felt the sliders were a bit more versatile and I didn't like having to play wtih the ebb on the trail (changing rear tube, chain breaks, starts to slip were the big ones). If you go with sliders, ask the builder not to polish the insides which will help with slipping. Mine have not slipped once and if properly tightened and lined up I don't see how they could slip.

 

[cubeman]

I guess the only way they couild slip is when you don't tighten the bolts enough.
But in thet case the only thing that can happen is the non-drive side moving backwards as they can't move forwards because of the adjustment screws.

Also wonder if the can take the BOB Yak trailer a sometimes use.

 

[None]

I too just went from a Rig to a custom and went with Paragon Sliders. Reasons for me were the adjustment of the EBB causes everything else to need adjustment. The Seat hight, fore/aft etc... But that is just me as I'm sensitive as hell to tiny adjustments to the cockpit.
If those things don't bother you then the EBB will be a simple alternative! Plus with a nice EBB insert it may even be lighter!

 

[cubeman]

Bushnell EBB vs Paragon sliders is a difference of 30gr in favor of the sliders.
So no big of a difference between them!

 

[None]

30 GRAMS! WOW thats like...more than an ounce and with an ounce you could really have a good part...

Oh...ummm yea right that ain't too much now is it.

 

[Frank Tuesday]

I chose Bushnell. 1 Bolt. Paragon has 6. (two on each side plus the tensioners.)

If you are going custom and are particular about your position on the bike, Paragon. None of my bikes have the same position, so I'm not particular about my seat angle changing by half a degree. I don't even change my seat height when I move the EBB (unless I go from bottom to top orientation.)

There are valid reasons for each, and it has been discussed over and over and over and over......

I think the Paragons (and all other sliding drops) are ugly.

 

[JSD303]

FWIW I'm a larger rider (6' 4" 200+ lbs) and am having a custom Black Sheep Ti SS frame built with an EBB. While I was talking to several builders during the shopping process I asked them what design they thought was best for my style and size. Many suggested the EBB on a frame for me because of my weight. Some suggested that it could be possible over time for the Paragon sliders to "ovalize" because of all the weight on the two top insides of the slider walls. Most suggested that they could build either to accommodate my size, but that the EBB might be the best long-term solution.

Personally, I'm quite adaptive, so the minor adjustments in geo for the EBB won't bother me. For some, that could be a deal breaker.

Not sure that helps in your case, but thought I'd throw that out there.

 

[slim_pickens]

Re: EBBs
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=239520

I've seen occasional complaints about sliders here as well, but they're much less frequent. How about horizontal dropouts, a wide flange flip flop hub and a rim brake?

 

[zombiekiller]

I'd go EBB.
Depending on the frame setup and tubing, the paragon slider design can make the rear traingle way flexy, If you are one to crank really hard while pedaling or do alot of hopping, i'd stay away from the sliders. The ovaling isn't something that will happen overnight with proper care. the non drive side slider will move though. If and when it moves, chances are you will crack the slider as well.( it isn't difficult based on the design , machining and quality of the aluminum) ( they are also designed to break and deform before your frame does ) And those sliders are pretty freakin expensive for the tiny piece of machined aluminum that they are. I haven't tried out the Voodoo style sliders yet, they do seem like they would work a bit better though.

As far as ebb requiring adjustment of seat height etc etc etc, i guess that all depends on your riding style. with where and how i ride, the ebb adjustment really doesn't bother me much, I find myself in and out of the saddle far too much for it to really make a noticeable difference.

If you have your concerns about both designs, why not have the frame builder slap some surly horizontal ends in there? use two chain tensioners and a salsa tandem skewer (145 mm) and just trim down the skewer as needed.

 

[1 Speed]

I'd definitely go EBB, but I don't like the way sliders look and I've never had a single problem with my EBB on my Curtlo. Get the full clamp type, not the ones with the bolt in to the EBB type.

 

[Joe_Jitsu]

Paragon Sliding Dropouts

Quiring custom steel, with Paragon Sliding Dropouts.

Been riding it for 3 months, and I could not be happier. No creaking, slipping or any other issue. I can also throw on the slider with a der. hanger and run 1x9.

Anyway, so far so good. Chalk up one for the Sliders.

Joe

 

[Soupboy]

I went with a Niner-style EBB (pinch bolt) on my Badger Dorothy. I despise sliders and all those that like them :madman: Bushnells are the heaviest and most creak prone although I had no-creaking issues on my old On One Inbred (26"). The Niner EBB is simple, quiet and relatively light and available to any custom builder working with steel.

 

[LJintheUK]

I've tried Paragon sliders and the Niner style ebb and for my next build I'm going back to simple trackends and a rear V brake. The Paragons were finicky to set up and creaked (which was solved by greasing them regularly which in turn required setting them up again :madman: ) The Niner EBB works but I had to ovalise the BB shell to get the EBB tight enough so as not to slip (and yes I did use a torque wrench to the specified "/lbs and it slipped). I think the Niner would be OK with ring reinforcements on the BB shell and for the added 100g or so would be worth it. The moving of position of the eccentric didn't bother me as I thought it would.

 

[Clockwork Bikes]

Tire Clearence and other Problems

If you want short chainstays (17.5") and ample tire clearence, you'll have to use sliders. The EBB setup needs longer chainstays to achieve enough tire clearence because the shell width is only 65mm and has a larger outside diameter which means the chainstays start bending outwards from a point that's further back.

Rotating the EBB also messes with your frame geometry.

Also, If you ever want gears on you bike, you can just buy the aluminum slider with a hanger from Paragon.

EBBs are for tandems. Sliders were invented to replace EBBs.

-Joel

www.clockworkbikes.com

 

[brontotx]

Short chain stays ARE possible

If you want short chainstays (17.5") and ample tire clearence, you'll have to use sliders. The EBB setup needs longer chainstays to achieve enough tire clearence because the shell width is only 65mm and has a larger outside diameter which means the chainstays start bending outwards from a point that's further back.

I have a Black Sheep Highroller with the Bushnell EBB and a 17.45" chain stay, so it can be done. There is plenty of tire clearance for a 2.1 and it looks like there is plenty of space for a 2.3 or even a 2.55. Please note that I haven't mounted these larger tires to know for sure, but it looks like they'd fit. I posted a photo last week showing the clearance on my bike w/ 2.1's (I'm an mtbr newbie and haven't figured out how to link to that other post :madman: ).

I am also in the camp that isn't bothered by the minor geometry changes that occur when making EBB adjustments. As for a specific recommendation on whether to use EBBs or sliders, I think it is a personal preference that should be made after considering each system's pluses and minuses that are well discussed in this thread.

FYI - the only problem I had with the Bushnell was that I originally used a 3-piece bottom bracket and it creaked badly. I have had zero creaks since switching to a Phil Wood cartridge bottom bracket.

 

[Wish I Were Riding]

Niner-style EBB (pinch bolt)

That sounds like the best possible setup. Period. (for me at least)

 

[[email protected]]

Niner EBB's

I went with a Niner-style EBB (pinch bolt) on my Badger Dorothy. I despise sliders and all those that like them :madman: Bushnells are the heaviest and most creak prone although I had no-creaking issues on my old On One Inbred (26"). The Niner EBB is simple, quiet and relatively light and available to any custom builder working with steel.

The Niner EBB is of the Set-Screw variety and is a very nice, lightweight option.

Hope the Dorothy is treating you well!:thumbsup:

 

[Frank Tuesday]

If you want short chainstays (17.5") and ample tire clearence, you'll have to use sliders.

BS!!!

I've got 16.8" stays and clearance for 3.0's. And I've got a Bushnell. I have a yoke, rather than having the stays connected to the BB shell, but my bike is proof that you CAN have short stays, ample tire clearance AND and EBB.