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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

What pressures do you run on your Manitou Swinger 3... on your Burner?

I am 195 pounds, agressive cross country.
25% Sag and 120 pounds in the SPV.

My problem is the shock bottoms to easily... and I do not think the SPV is dialed in yet it is hard to tell if the shock is bobbing or if it just the active suspension design working.


Thanks,
OCrider
 

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That is probably plenty of pressure in the SPV. When I first got my Burner I used to look down all the time to see if it was bobbing. It will drive you crazy. Don't worry about it. I really like mine with little to no platform. The bike rides best when the suspension is constantly moving. Mine seems to track over the smallest twig. I love it.
 

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I know it's been posted before...

I have tried different settings, and the conclusion I've reached is that I need a firmer spring. What's really strange is, I run a Sherman Firefly on front (yes I know It's too much fork, I was warned and did it anyway...I'm a rebel) and the bike rides great, a little stiff, but very predictable in the tight turns and rock garden stuff, but setting the travel to 130 results in smooth riding. Why? I wish I knew. I'm not a clydes but am 205+ loaded up with pack and gear. So I have ordered the stiffer spring for my 3 way, but have not torn it apart bfore, so I don't know if I should bother or let the LBS put it in. Also, does Manitou care if I do it or the bike shop does it? I'd like to know what you all do....
I run 130 psi and 30% sag.
 

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This questions keeps coming back. It's probably because the Swinger is a bit of a pain to get right, and Manitou can't explain it very well in the manual. There have been a number of threads both in the Turner forum and the shock forum on this subject - do a search and you'll find lots of varying opinions. I personally like a very low SPV setting and a higher spring setting. At first, I ran recommended SPV volumes, and it filtered out alot of small bumps. Now, I run 75psi SPV, 150 main (I'm 175-180 with gear). I don't notice it bottoming, and it works much better in nearly all conditions. It does bob a bit - and I mean a very small amount - doing out of the saddle middle-ring attacks (which for me rarely happens).

I like the shock, but it's been no picnic to get dialed in. It's probably user error more than anything.
 

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Swinger settings

I have tried a lot of different combinations and found that 60% of your weight in the SPV and 25% to 30% sag in the main does the trick.
This is right in the middle of the recomended setting range and it works great. - Stable (no bob) and active (plush). Start with these settings and adjust in 5psi increments to suit your needs.
 

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I am with Burnerd

I started with the recommended settings for my '04 Burner, then read in these forums how a lot of people ran lower SPV and correspondingly higher main air spring pressure. I experimented with the lower SPV but did not really like it; I ended up coming back to about 120/165 or so, with around 30% sag. I am around 225 ready-to-ride. I also cranked the rebound a few clicks faster than the starting setting; that made a very big difference for me. My riding is mostly NorCal fireroads, smooth to moderately rocky--I try to go around stuff instead of over it given a choice, and I don't jump anything (yet).

I went as far as reading the Curnutt patent (out of town with some long evenings in the hotel). I came away believing that the higher SPV pressures (50-70%) are what makes the shock work the way it is supposed to. If you were trying to emulate a non-platform shock, you could crank up the main and lower the SPV down to 25-40% of body weight to get the desired sag. It seems to me that this defeats the purpose of the platform...very soft platform (so what's the point) and a stiff main spring to hold up the bike and resist the low speed motion. It seems to me that the SPV platform should work in the opposite manner--a reasonably stiff platform resists low-speed bobbing and holds up the bike despite having a lower main spring pressure. When you do blow through the platform you have a cushy main spring to soak up the crud. WIth the soft main spring and lots of starting sag, it would seem that bottoming out could be a problem but I have not had a problem with that...it seems to suck up everything I've thrown at it and has a little in reserve at the end of the day.
 

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I started with recommended settings too, and found the small bump compliance to be pretty weak. I don't notice any bobbing at a low SPV volume, so I've been using it largely as a non-platform shock, I suppose. There was even a time where I tried a higher than recommended SPV volume and a lower main spring at the recommendation of someone here, and didn't like the ride at all. I'm running 42% of my bodyweight in SPV, 85% in the main spring. I like what I've felt there.

I always feel compelled to try something when someone suggests it, so, for the sake of tinkering once again with it, I'll try 60% SPV as recommended by Burnerd. But I do wish, for those asking this question as much as myself, that SOMEONE from Manitou or Turner would publish some settings that work well with a Horst 4 bar (at least as a starting point). I understand Manitou's position - there are a lot of bikes with lots of different suspension designs out there, so they've got to be general. And, yes, everyone wants a differing ride from their full suspension, so it'd be hard to be specific. Maybe I'm wrong, but I imagine that pressures for a single pivot are going to vary from recommended pressures for a 4 bar or VPP or whatever - so where do the numbers that they recommend come from? Maybe I'm also assuming that this is brain surgery when it's not. By now, you sense my frustration. I should get a life.
 

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outclassed by his bike
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frog and toad are friends

I suspect that the "low spv" users could magically ride with the "high spv" users, each on his or her home turf, we'd see the following and everything would become clear:

low spv users tend to ride more slowly (e.g., eastern forest singletrack)
high spv users tend to ride faster (e.g, western fire roads)

low spv users tend to be spinners
high spv users tend to be mashers

low spv users encounter constant bone-rattling chatter from relatively small (< 6") roots and rocks
high spv users encounter less frequent but large hits (> 6")
 

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carpe mañana
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DLine said:
I do wish, for those asking this question as much as myself, that SOMEONE from Manitou or Turner would publish some settings that work well with a Horst 4 bar (at least as a starting point)
When I first bought my Burner, I used Giant's swinger setup guide as a starting point. Since their bikes have 4 bar linkage, I figured it would work, and it seems to have, I am very satisfied with my setup, although I haven't touched my shock in a long while and dont' remember exactly the pressures off the top of my head. You can find Giant's guide here: http://www.giant-bicycles.com/nl/050.000.000/050.500.300.asp#30

_MK
 

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I called Turner about 3 Way settings...

Casey consulted with an in-house clyde (220-225) and came back with 75/210 (33%/93%). He said the rider was doing mosty fire roads that might be a bit smoother that some of our Northern California stuff (Santa Cruz Mountains). I gave that a try, but decided it didn't suit me...the stiff main spring pressure rattled me around more than I liked on the descents. What I did from that point was slowly increase the SPV pressure (and decrease the main spring pressure) until things felt right.

Mind you, this was going on while I was also dialing in my fork--so for all I know I've got the whole setup inside out. So many knobs, so little time...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for the input.

Thanks for your advice1

I am still testing to find the best setting. I was hoping to find the 'one' setting and go ride any trail.... but noticed adjustments should be made depending on trail type. For example.. if I am riding steep fire roads I like a stiff spring and SPV... so the bike does not squat down so much. On the single track, running reccommended pressures seem to work well.

One thing still bothers me. I do not like how fast i can blow through the travel of the mantiou swinger 3.... has anybody used the swinger 4... I like the idea of different compression seetings and the ability to change the rate of the spring.

Or should I switch to a RP3... or a coil??

Thanks... OCrider
 

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Just more confusion...

I read a thread like this and end up more confused than before I read it.

Mr. Magu is gonna get order a stiffer spring for his shock. I thought mine was an air-spring shock and didn't know you could order a stiffer spring.

Dline says there are times he tries a "higher than recommended SPV volume". I thought it was recommended that you adjust the SPV volume anywhere from maximum on down depending on the kind of platform setting you are looking for. How do you make the volume of the SPV chamber higher than it's original maximum volume?

Edit: As if to prove my point...I was out checking the pressures in my Swinger 3 and realized it doesn't have a way to adjust SPV volume, that was on my Minute 3 front fork. Doohh!. So how is Dline doing ANY adjustment to his SPV volume?

John W.
 

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Keep on Rockin...
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Here's THE BEST way to get the Burner feeling smooth...

1. Remove all air pressure from the 3 Way.

2. Remove the 3 Way from the bike.

3. Find an non-SPV shock like a Cane Creek or an older Fox Float on ebay for next to nothing.

4. Install the the non-SPV shock and air up to provide ~25-33% sag.

5. Enjoy the already-extremely efficient, short travel, Horst link Turner Burner.

6. Try to sell your 3 Way in the classified. (Want mine? Like new. Real cheap. PM me.)

Mike
 

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Miker J said:
1. Remove all air pressure from the 3 Way.

2. Remove the 3 Way from the bike.

3. Find an non-SPV shock like a Cane Creek or an older Fox Float on ebay for next to nothing.

4. Install the the non-SPV shock and air up to provide ~25-33% sag.

5. Enjoy the already-extremely efficient, short travel, Horst link Turner Burner.

6. Try to sell your 3 Way in the classified. (Want mine? Like new. Real cheap. PM me.)

Mike
Sweet!

Does your Swinger 3-Way have an SPV volume adjustment, and how firm is the spring on yours? :D

John W.
 

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papajohn said:
I read a thread like this and end up more confused than before I read it.

Mr. Magu is gonna get order a stiffer spring for his shock. I thought mine was an air-spring shock and didn't know you could order a stiffer spring.

Dline says there are times he tries a "higher than recommended SPV volume". I thought it was recommended that you adjust the SPV volume anywhere from maximum on down depending on the kind of platform setting you are looking for. How do you make the volume of the SPV chamber higher than it's original maximum volume?

Edit: As if to prove my point...I was out checking the pressures in my Swinger 3 and realized it doesn't have a way to adjust SPV volume, that was on my Minute 3 front fork. Doohh!. So how is Dline doing ANY adjustment to his SPV volume?

John W.
I've tried higher than RECOMMENDED SPV PRESSURES for my weight and desired sag. I've never run higher than maximum volume in the SPV chamber, since that would be impossible. There is no volume adjuster on the 3 way, only a pressure valve (red), and that is what I speak of when I talk about trying different pressures. Sorry if I mispoke or confused the issue.
 

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Who said that? Heruh? Oh am I confused!!

"Mr. Magu is gonna get order a stiffer spring for his shock. I thought mine was an air-spring shock and didn't know you could order a stiffer spring."
papajohn

Yeah, I'm stupid sometimes. I was referring to my fork, but left that part out.
doh!
double doh!
What a bozo. Sorry for the confusion, it's not easy being blind... :D
 

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How are you bottoming out?

OCRider -- You mentioned in first post on this thread that you bottom out too easily, and in this post you've indicated that you are blowing through the travel too easily. Let's explore that...are you actually getting some sort of "metal-hitting-metal" crunch at the end of the shock's travel, or are you just looking at the o-ring and saying "dang, there wasn't much left and I hardly did anything crazy..."?

My (limited) experience with the 3-Way, and what I've read about the SPV shocks in general, seem to suggest that they are not going to bottom out as easily as one would think. Whether this is because they ramp quickly toward the end of the travel, or have some sort of "speed-sensitive" damping I can't really say. (Technically, the patent describes the damping as "position sensitive.") But I definitely remember reading a lot about how the shock can be set up "softer" than a non-platform shock would be without a corresponding increase in the likelihood of bottoming out.

For my riding, I get the "dang..." result above--no bottoming, just using a lot of the travel. Does not seem to matter whether I am just crawling up over rocks and roots, or blasting back down over the same section...the shock uses a lot of it's travel, but I have yet to bottom it on anything. I don't hurl my bike (and body) into space like some do here...so consider that when you are comparing our results.
 

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carpe mañana
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no bottom

I'll second that, Dad Man Walking. When I first got the frame in mail, I built it up within my lunch break, just so I could ride it back to work. The hurry necessitated forgetfulness, like adding air to the shock. It basically had next to nothing in the chambers, and silly me, I was like, WOW, what a plush ride. I was hoppin' off curbs, did a couple of jumps, never heard a metal hitting metal sound, or a harsh bump when one would expect it to bottom out. Naturally, since then, I set it up with what sounds proper for my weight, and it still goes through 90% of travel when I ride around town and stuff, but when I take it to the trail, it still feals plush, and uses about 98% of the travel most of the time. Very rarely I get home and see the o-ring fallen off the shaft. Even then, never felt a harsh bottom out.

_MK
 
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