Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, Ive been on a few rides with my new Burner, love the damn bike. However the front end is a little squirly at times, I almost ate it good yesturday.. Its as if the front wheel wants to give out at times on me. Now is my question. Can this be related to the stem being too long? I have a 120mm Thompson with a medium bike. My inseem is about 19 inches. Now it really doesnt seem too long, but maybe im to far over the handlebars. I also dont feel cramped. So maybe I can short the stem too say, a 100mm. What do you guys think?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
194 Posts
If your washing the front, you need more weight on the front wheel. More weight = more traction. A longer stem will probably make you uncomfortable. Try lowering your stem and see if that helps. Go out on a trail with an allen wrench and play with the spacers. 2mm of stem height can make a huge difference.
 

·
No, that's not phonetic
Joined
·
14,313 Posts
You could go to a shorter stem and slide your seat back and keep the reach the same. The problem there is that you then have less weight on the front tire and it can tend to wash out more, not less.

You didn't tell us what fork you have and how it's set up. It may be diving too much. That steepens the head angle and makes the bike twitchy and a handful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
my fork

tscheezy said:
You could go to a shorter stem and slide your seat back and keep the reach the same. The problem there is that you then have less weight on the front tire and it can tend to wash out more, not less.

You didn't tell us what fork you have and how it's set up. It may be diving too much. That steepens the head angle and makes the bike twitchy and a handful.
The fork is a Marazocchi Marathon SL. Im not real happy with the fork itself. Ive always been a marazocchi fan. However this is my first air fork. I probably switch it out for a coil. Maybe the Comp MX Coil. Not sure though... i put more than the recomended air in the chambers for the fork.
 

·
Shreddin the Cul de Sac
Joined
·
491 Posts
Me too

I've got a Burner with a Marathon SL also.
Don't give up on the fork just yet.

I only have maybe a half dozen rides on the bike so far, but after finding the setup guidelines in the manual to be generally useless, I've been researching here and playing with the fork setup.

Intuition told me that I should run a higher positive spring and lower negative spring to get the ride I was looking for - fast rebound without too much damping - that the way I usually set up my coil forks. That's what seems to be working for the Swinger 3 btw, for me anyway.

Well based on test rides and what I've read here, my intuition was completely wrong. I ended up with very little travel, and a loud clonk everytime the rebound topped out (very unnerving when you're roaring down a trail with frequent small hits).

After searching "SL tuning", I read something by Mr Cheezy that puts positive spring lower than Zokie recommendations and higher negative spring (3 to 4 times the amount of pressure in the positive spring). right now I have it at about 35 and 85 I think, but I haven't been able to trail test it.

I'm a set it and forget it guy, so I hate all this d!cking around, but I think it'll be worth it once it's set up right. The Burner felt really weird the first time I rode mine, but as I'm getting the shock, fork and fit ironed out, I'm really starting to dig it.

Crusher said:
The fork is a Marazocchi Marathon SL. Im not real happy with the fork itself. Ive always been a marazocchi fan. However this is my first air fork. I probably switch it out for a coil. Maybe the Comp MX Coil. Not sure though... i put more than the recomended air in the chambers for the fork.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
that sounds promising

Burpee said:
I've got a Burner with a Marathon SL also.
Don't give up on the fork just yet.

I only have maybe a half dozen rides on the bike so far, but after finding the setup guidelines in the manual to be generally useless, I've been researching here and playing with the fork setup.

Intuition told me that I should run a higher positive spring and lower negative spring to get the ride I was looking for - fast rebound without too much damping - that the way I usually set up my coil forks. That's what seems to be working for the Swinger 3 btw, for me anyway.

Well based on test rides and what I've read here, my intuition was completely wrong. I ended up with very little travel, and a loud clonk everytime the rebound topped out (very unnerving when you're roaring down a trail with frequent small hits).

After searching "SL tuning", I read something by Mr Cheezy that puts positive spring lower than Zokie recommendations and higher negative spring (3 to 4 times the amount of pressure in the positive spring). right now I have it at about 35 and 85 I think, but I haven't been able to trail test it.

I'm a set it and forget it guy, so I hate all this d!cking around, but I think it'll be worth it once it's set up right. The Burner felt really weird the first time I rode mine, but as I'm getting the shock, fork and fit ironed out, I'm really starting to dig it.
Maybe there is hope after all then for the fork, how much do you weigh and were can I find this reading yuour talking about. I will make a change in the air, i do at times hear and feel the clunking you speak of. I eve hear it just farting around in my front yard and a compress the fork while I ride the bike.
 

·
Shreddin the Cul de Sac
Joined
·
491 Posts
I weigh 205 butt nekkid. I started with @ 50# positive in each leg and the minimum in the negative (50#?), not sure. That was horrible. Last ride was 40+ positive and 60-70 negative (my pump doesn't have a fine enough gauge). Ride was better but still too firm and still clunking. In the garage the other nght I tried the 35/85, but no test ride yet.

It's at http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=94232&highlight=sl+tuning where the big Cheeze says:

"I also weigh 180. I put 36-38psi in both positive chambers on my 03 Z1 SL, and then just keep adding nevative pressure until the fork does not topout hard."

Here are some more:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=13687&highlight=marathon+sl+tuning

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=55336&highlight=marathon+sl+tuning

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=95631&highlight=marathon+sl+tuning
 

·
Even Wittier User Title
Joined
·
60 Posts
Add me to the Burner/Marathon SL club. 205 with no gear and I'm running about 24 pos and 80 neg. I'm still trying to work out oil levels. I'm getting about 95mm travel. You guys have the 105, right? Oh yeah, I'm running the ECC one click over.
 

·
Shreddin the Cul de Sac
Joined
·
491 Posts
Yes 105mm for me.
Must be damn plush at 24 pos for a 205 rider, no?
Any trouble with bottoming out?

That's like half the zoke recommendation!
How can the manual be so far off real world recommendations?
 

·
Even Wittier User Title
Joined
·
60 Posts
Burpee said:
Yes 105mm for me.
Must be damn plush at 24 pos for a 205 rider, no?
Any trouble with bottoming out?

That's like half the zoke recommendation!
How can the manual be so far off real world recommendations?
IMO the manual is a total waste of paper, it didn't help at all. I have between 20 and 25mm of sag and it doesn't bottom out. I can only get about 95mm of the claimed 105mm. Maybe I still have too much oil in there. I have the ECC side at 60mm down from the top of the threads and about the same or a little less on the other side. Maybe there is something wrong with my ECC cartridge. It didn't move freely when I had out of the shock. Very sticky. That and it's off center when mounted to the lowers. Sounds like I should call Marzocchi, huh?
 

·
outclassed by his bike
Joined
·
365 Posts
Fork Settings First

Well this thread is yet another example of how all the Marzocchi chatter is making me very happy about my decision to get a Fox fork. Sorry Crusher, I know that's not helpful.

It sure does sound from your description like you're spending too much time deep in the travel. I'm guessing that either your rebound is too slow or you're running too much sag or both. I would mess with those settings before touching the stem.

First - and I'm intentionally talking concepts here since I'm not intimate with the Zoke implementation of them - make sure you don't have an unreasonable amount of sag. I would start with no more than 25% given the issues you're having. Once you have that sorted, set the rebound to full fast and see if that cures the twitchiness problem. If so, then gradually slow down the rebound to taste. The idea is that you want don't want to be losing travel during a rapid succession of hits, and even after a single hit you need to get your head angle back to normal fairly fast, before the next tight corner or whatever.

Just my two cents.
 

·
Shreddin the Cul de Sac
Joined
·
491 Posts
Bully for you

With all due respect, I'm glad you're happy with your decision.

You might be interested to know that I sold off my Yeti 575 and Fox Vanilla after 6 rides to buy the Burner and Marathon because I thought the Yeti sucked and the Fox sucked.

When you hit the ECC or ETA switch on a Zoke, it locks out at the BOTTOM of it's travel, dropping the front of the bike into a nice wedge shape to help you up the climb or up the street.

When you flip the lever on the Fox Vanilla, it locks out at the TOP of it's 5 inches of travel. So you're trying to muscle up a steep technical uneven climb with the RP3 squishing away beneath you, and the Vanilla pointing you up in the sky, making the front end about as floppy as can be.

To each their own. I'm glad you're happy with your Fox. I've owned a Z2 Bam, a couple Z1 MCRs, an MX Comp and now the Marathon. I would spend the next year d!cking around with a the settings on a Zokie before I'd buy another Fox.

This came across a bit strong. No disrespect intended. I just HATED my Fox shock.

qcanoe said:
Well this thread is yet another example of how all the Marzocchi chatter is making me very happy about my decision to get a Fox fork. Sorry Crusher, I know that's not helpful.

It sure does sound from your description like you're spending too much time deep in the travel. I'm guessing that either your rebound is too slow or you're running too much sag or both. I would mess with those settings before touching the stem.

First - and I'm intentionally talking concepts here since I'm not intimate with the Zoke implementation of them - make sure you don't have an unreasonable amount of sag. I would start with no more than 25% given the issues you're having. Once you have that sorted, set the rebound to full fast and see if that cures the twitchiness problem. If so, then gradually slow down the rebound to taste. The idea is that you want don't want to be losing travel during a rapid succession of hits, and even after a single hit you need to get your head angle back to normal fairly fast, before the next tight corner or whatever.

Just my two cents.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top