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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am building my M3 soon, but I'm in a kind of dilemma. I have thought about either getting a SC DH kit and switch out a few parts, or go full custom. The price difference is practically nothing. I will primarily use this bike for DH racing.

If anyone got opinions on parts from either list, shout! I would very much like some feedback on the long-term performance of the Avid Code and the Truvativ OCT-crankset.

These parts are coming on the bike regardless of the chosen kit:
Stone Edge handlebars/stem
Intense FRO Lite tires
Goodridge brake lines
Shimano M647 pedals
Marzocchi Roco WC rear shock
Marzocchi 888RC2X World Cup fork

Custom:

Formula ORO Bianco brakes
Chris King NoThreadset headset
DT 440 rear hub
King 20mm front hub
DT SuperComp spokes
Notubes ZTR FR rim
Thomson Elite seatpost
Middleburn crankset
FSA Platinum DH 83mm ISIS BB
SRAM X.0-shifter
SRAM X.0-rear mech
SRAM PG970 cassette
SRAM PC971 chain
Intense Spider seat
ODI Intense grips
MRP System 3 w/Fusion ring


SantaCruz DH Kit:

REAR DER SRAM X0 short cage
SHIFTERS SRAM X0 right trigger
CRANKSET TruVativ Holzfeller OCT 40 tooth (e13 chainguide included)
BOTTOM BRACKET TruVativ Howitzer Team
CASSETTE SRAM PG 990, 11-32
CHAIN SRAM PC 991
BRAKES Avid Code w/ 203mm rotors
BRAKE LEVERS Avid Code
BARS Race Face Diabolus riser
STEM Thomson, 31.8mm
GRIPS Lizard Skin lock on
HEADSET Chris King
SEAT POST Thompson
SADDLE WTB Rocket V Stealth
WHEELS DT FR 6.1D rims laced to DT 440 hubs w/ DT 14 guage spokes, brass nipples
TIRES Kenda Nevegal 2.7 front 2.5 rear wire
TUBES Kenda DH
 

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The Oros will save you endless weight over the Codes, but Juicys would be a good compromise between both.
I personally would save money and get Hope Pro 2 hubs (sweet, light, trouble free) but wouldn't compromise on the rims and Spokes. DT Comps are the better choice because you can use full 2.0 mm nipples. If you plan on using aluminum nipples there is no other choice beside 2.0 mm! Rims are a personal thing based on riding style/terrain, but the DT 6.1 are WAY too soft. The dent in a few rocky runs. No idea about the Stans.
XO stuff is pretty pricey and doesn't save you that much weight. 07 X9 should perform similar and cost significantly less, especially when you have to consider replacing the derailleur after crashing.
BTW: Intense frames have a 31.6 mm seatpost diameter
 

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iRider said:
The Oros will save you endless weight over the Codes, but Juicys would be a good compromise between both.
I personally would save money and get Hope Pro 2 hubs (sweet, light, trouble free) but wouldn't compromise on the rims and Spokes. DT Comps are the better choice because you can use full 2.0 mm nipples. If you plan on using aluminum nipples there is no other choice beside 2.0 mm! Rims are a personal thing based on riding style/terrain, but the DT 6.1 are WAY too soft. The dent in a few rocky runs. No idea about the Stans.
XO stuff is pretty pricey and doesn't save you that much weight. 07 X9 should perform similar and cost significantly less, especially when you have to consider replacing the derailleur after crashing.
BTW: Intense frames have a 31.6 mm seatpost diameter
the benefit of XO goes deeper than just weight savings-forged knuckle mount, uber stiff bolted thermo pulley arms. But the M3 kit looks to be lighter. I love the formulas too, light stiff and strong as hell. the intense grips should seal the deal! :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I want hassle-free hubs. The rims will be replaced with either Stans ZTR FR or Atomlab Pimp/Pimplite when dented badly.

So, what do people think? Anyone got opinions on the crankset and chaindevices?
 

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Mr_Kaizer said:
I want hassle-free hubs. The rims will be replaced with either Stans ZTR FR or Atomlab Pimp/Pimplite when dented badly.

So, what do people think? Anyone got opinions on the crankset and chaindevices?
Hopes are hassle free! Do you have any experience with the Stans rims? I am curious how they hold up as they are a little lighter than 721s.
 

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iRider said:
DT Comps are the better choice because you can use full 2.0 mm nipples. If you plan on using aluminum nipples there is no other choice beside 2.0 mm!
I'm afraid I don't understand your logic here. 2.0mm nipples and 1.8mm nipples have the same outside dimensions, but the 2.0mm onen have a larger hole, thus making it weaker. The whole point of the SuperComp spoke is that it's 1.8mm at the threads, thus giving a alu nipple that's as strong as a 2.0mm brass nipple, but only 1/3 the weight.

Also, with 1.8mm nipples, there's less torque transmitted to the spoke during building, making it easier to achive high tension without twisting the spoke too much.

Ole.
 

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Ole said:
I'm afraid I don't understand your logic here. 2.0mm nipples and 1.8mm nipples have the same outside dimensions, but the 2.0mm onen have a larger hole, thus making it weaker. The whole point of the SuperComp spoke is that it's 1.8mm at the threads, thus giving a alu nipple that's as strong as a 2.0mm brass nipple, but only 1/3 the weight.

Also, with 1.8mm nipples, there's less torque transmitted to the spoke during building, making it easier to achive high tension without twisting the spoke too much.

Ole.
In my experience the biggest problem with aluminum nipples is that the thread gets ripped out because of too much tension (during riding, not building the wheel). A 1.8 mm spoke/nipple has a finer thread compared to a 2.0 and is easier to rip out. I don't know what the point behind the Super Comp spokes is, all I can say is that they didn't work for me when using them on a 36 hole DH wheelset. And I am not hard on wheels!

When you build a wheel, don't you release the tension so that the spokes can un-twist? :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
misctwo said:
the benefit of XO goes deeper than just weight savings-forged knuckle mount, uber stiff bolted thermo pulley arms. But the M3 kit looks to be lighter. I love the formulas too, light stiff and strong as hell. the intense grips should seal the deal! :thumbsup:
The new X.9 looks promising, I might just go for the '07 X.9 if it gives the same shift quality and tightness. (I have fiddled around with some 2006 X.9s, and I'm not impressed.)
I couldn't care less whether the cage is carbon or not.
Anyone got experience with '07 X.9?
 

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iRider said:
In my experience the biggest problem with aluminum nipples is that the thread gets ripped out because of too much tension (during riding, not building the wheel). A 1.8 mm spoke/nipple has a finer thread compared to a 2.0 and is easier to rip out. I don't know what the point behind the Super Comp spokes is, all I can say is that they didn't work for me when using them on a 36 hole DH wheelset. And I am not hard on wheels!

When you build a wheel, don't you release the tension so that the spokes can un-twist? :confused:
The thread pitch is the same. I've never even hear of anyone ripping the spokes out of the threads. Are you sure you didn't use 2.0-nipples? The let you bring the tension up to almost 100kg on a 1.8mm spoke before the threads let go.

I unwind the spokes every time I turn the nipple. A thin spoke, or a thicker one at very high tension, can twist so much during tensioning that the metal actually deforms, and the spokes permanently elongates. This problem becomes smaller with 1.8mm threads. I prefer Revo 1.8/1.5/1.8 over 2.0/1.5/2.0 because of this when building super light XC racing wheels (1200g-range for disc brakes, 1100+ for rim brakes). If the wheel requires Comp, I always use brass nipples, the 2.0mm alu nipples end up braking prematurely with the 150kg average I often use on wheels where I use Comp. (Downhill/Freeride/Hucking and 600+g rims)

Ole.
 

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Mr_Kaizer said:
The new X.9 looks promising, I might just go for the '07 X.9 if it gives the same shift quality and tightness. (I have fiddled around with some 2006 X.9s, and I'm not impressed.)
I couldn't care less whether the cage is carbon or not.
Anyone got experience with '07 X.9?
i like the thermo/carbon cage because it's stiffer and overall stronger because of the additional bolts. when the alloy cage hits a rock, it will bend, when the thermo/carbon will just get pushed aside, but eventually move back and still be aligned. a bent cage will never be the same after. that's the theory. plus the XO has a ver ystiff titanium spring!

i plan on getting the XO shift/derailleur setup, for about $325.
 

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Ole said:
The thread pitch is the same. I've never even hear of anyone ripping the spokes out of the threads. Are you sure you didn't use 2.0-nipples? The let you bring the tension up to almost 100kg on a 1.8mm spoke before the threads let go.

I unwind the spokes every time I turn the nipple. A thin spoke, or a thicker one at very high tension, can twist so much during tensioning that the metal actually deforms, and the spokes permanently elongates. This problem becomes smaller with 1.8mm threads. I prefer Revo 1.8/1.5/1.8 over 2.0/1.5/2.0 because of this when building super light XC racing wheels (1200g-range for disc brakes, 1100+ for rim brakes). If the wheel requires Comp, I always use brass nipples, the 2.0mm alu nipples end up braking prematurely with the 150kg average I often use on wheels where I use Comp. (Downhill/Freeride/Hucking and 600+g rims)

Ole.
Interesting, totally different experience from what I have. No, the ones that didn't work were the 1.8s. A buddy had the same problem with the straight 1.8 mm spokes and aluminum nipples. I switched back to brass and problems were solved.
I think this is a good point with the twisting and elongating of the spokes. I always use oil to make the nipples turn as easy as possible and, like you, unwind them after every turn. But I never tension wheels to 150 kg. It makes for rough/stiff riding wheels what I don't like. For me a wheel needs to be in the perfect balance of stiffness and flex to make them ride good.
Do the Revos last? Have no experience with Revos because I always shyed away from them, looking too fragile. Most guys run superlight wheels with the Aerolite spokes because there the twisting issue is solved and they are claiming the spokes are stiffer then similar diameter round spokes.
For building super light wheels like the ones you describe you probably use Tune or FRM hubs, or?
 

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Mr_Kaizer said:
I want hassle-free hubs. The rims will be replaced with either Stans ZTR FR or Atomlab Pimp/Pimplite when dented badly.

So, what do people think? Anyone got opinions on the crankset and chaindevices?
I'm using Truvativ Holzfeller cranks and Howitzer Team BB on my M3, very happy with them. They're heavier than the Shimano Saints but much more durable so depends on how hard you ride and how heavy u are. Also I've always used MRP guides so tried the new one on the M3. Could never get it to work right without serious rubbing no matter what the roller configuration was so brought it back and got the E-13 instead. That was probably the best move I did to the M3. Fit is perfect and design is superior to the MRP - less chain rolling resistance and more accurate shifting. I'll never go back to an MRP design again.

Have FUN!

G MAN

PS - Also I tried the 2.7 front 2.5 rear Nevegal combo and the 2.7 is too wide and slow IMHO so I swapped it for another 2.5 Nev. They tend to run much wider than the industry norm.
 
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