[mahgnillig]

I've decided to build a new wheelset for my hubby. After doing a bit of research and asking in the wheels & tyres forum it seems like a decent (and not too expensive) wheelset would be something like XT hubs laced to Mavic XM321 or Sun RhynoLites. Here is the next question: would 32 or 36 holes be best for a 240lb guy? I'm having a bit of trouble locating XT hubs in the 36 hole version, so would 32 be okay? We don't ride anything too gnarly... no drops, just XC.

As an aside... it's kinda frustrating that it seems to cost more to build your own wheels than to buy them prebuilt. I want to do it myself for the challenge, and because I have a truing stand that needs to be used for something, but it's kinda tempting just to buy them since it seems to work out cheaper that way

Thanks,

- Jen.

 

[WATTO]

i know these are kinda of a downhill freeride wheelset but you cant go wrong with the azonic outlaws. there fairly light can be converted from 9mm to 20mm in the front and 9mm to 12mm in the rear. i have been beating on mine for about 6 months now doing freeride and they have held up good. i need to get them in for a truing. o yeah and i am about 15 pound heavier then you. just my 2 cents

 

[Call_me_Clyde]

I went with 36 holes

I've decided to build a new wheelset for my hubby. After doing a bit of research and asking in the wheels & tyres forum it seems like a decent (and not too expensive) wheelset would be something like XT hubs laced to Mavic XM321 or Sun RhynoLites. Here is the next question: would 32 or 36 holes be best for a 240lb guy? I'm having a bit of trouble locating XT hubs in the 36 hole version, so would 32 be okay? We don't ride anything too gnarly... no drops, just XC.

As an aside... it's kinda frustrating that it seems to cost more to build your own wheels than to buy them prebuilt. I want to do it myself for the challenge, and because I have a truing stand that needs to be used for something, but it's kinda tempting just to buy them since it seems to work out cheaper that way

Thanks,

- Jen.

I was better part of 250 when I ordered my hand-built XT/RhynoLites. The builder could have sold me the 32 hole very easily, in that he had a real tough time finding the 36 hole RhynoLite rims at the time, and had a set of the 32 hole rims already built up. Given that he went out of his way to get me the 36 hole rims because of my weight, I'd say it makes a difference. For what it's worth, I do ride technical, rocky rooty terrain, but I don't know that if would have made a difference in his recommendation.

Much like anything else, other builders may have different opinions, but after a year's use, the rims are true and I've had zero problems.

Best wishes in whatever you choose to make for him. He'll love them regardless because you made them for him. Doesn't get any more special than that.

Bob

 

[Descalzo]

I found that, I & 32 hole rims don't mix well for too long on anything other than "pavement" like conditions. Not that I've bent/broken a 32 on anything that wouldn't have bent a 36 hole. The 32's just never seem to take & keep a true, where as the 36'rs seem to take a set after the first ~50 miles, & I can more or less "forget" about them. If my wife was a wanna-be wheel builder, I might ride 32's (she'd always have something to do, but I'd "need" 3 wheelsets - one on the bike, one on the stand, & one ready to ride..lol)

You're right about 36 stuff being difficult to find, but it's worth the hunt IMO. Parts are more expensive then "units". On the other hand, woven "hand-builts" are typically much better/stronger wheelsets than machine builts, plus you've always wanted to... right?

 

[Guyechka]

very interesting reading

I have always had 32 holes. I never had any trouble with the front wheel--never even had to true it--but the rear wheel does need some trueing from time to time. But it's never anything drastic, and I've been riding some rocky steep stuff at full speed. If I were to build some wheels I would just stick with 32 and choose some tough hubs and tough rims. The 321s are on the short list for rims, especially since you can find them now for $25.

 

[Joules]

the fewer spokes you have, the more skill required on the part of the builder. Someone like dave thomas or lyle at spinlite could easily build a 28 spoke wheel that could stand up to you, while the nosepicker at the LBS could just as easliy screw up a 36 so that you constantly have to true it. If you know what you are doing 32 spokes will be fine, if not you'll need more, if really not, 36 may be too few.


different animal, but my mavic crosslands have 24 spokes, and over the last year I've gone from upwards of 250 to around 210. They have not seen a truing stand ever. I guess I'm pretty easy on equipment for my weight, but for me if wheels need truing more than every couple years they are no good.

I know what you mean about costs of building wheels yourself vs buying pre-made. I was planning on building my own wheels, but money was a concern and I couldn't come up with a wheelset that I'd actually wat to ride that cost less than the crosslands I ended up getting.

 

[Guyechka]

universal

One place to check out is Universal Cycles. They custom build wheelsets, and they have a wide range of hubs, rims and spokes. You can check out their sale wheelsets page for deals on custom built wheelsets that use different parts that are on sale at the time. I was stupid and went with a slightly cheaper wheelset than the one they had listed: Hadley hubs with 321s and DT spokes for $425. Now I wish I had just coughed up the other $100.

 

[SHIVER ME TIMBERS]

i know these are kinda of a downhill freeride wheelset but you cant go wrong with the azonic outlaws. there fairly light can be converted from 9mm to 20mm in the front and 9mm to 12mm in the rear. i have been beating on mine for about 6 months now doing freeride and they have held up good. i need to get them in for a truing. o yeah and i am about 15 pound heavier then you. just my 2 cents

yeah this is what I would recommend.....they handle freeride abuse (big drops and hard stunts) they are pretty cheap too

http://wheelworld.com/site/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2686

run 36 hole....I ride extreme conditions and would never ever think of 32 spoke for my size

 

[Ken in KC]

Joules is right again.

the fewer spokes you have, the more skill required on the part of the builder. Someone like dave thomas or lyle at spinlite could easily build a 28 spoke wheel that could stand up to you, while the nosepicker at the LBS could just as easliy screw up a 36 so that you constantly have to true it. If you know what you are doing 32 spokes will be fine, if not you'll need more, if really not, 36 may be too few.

different animal, but my mavic crosslands have 24 spokes, and over the last year I've gone from upwards of 250 to around 210. They have not seen a truing stand ever. I guess I'm pretty easy on equipment for my weight, but for me if wheels need truing more than every couple years they are no good.

I know what you mean about costs of building wheels yourself vs buying pre-made. I was planning on building my own wheels, but money was a concern and I couldn't come up with a wheelset that I'd actually wat to ride that cost less than the crosslands I ended up getting.

Most professional wheel builders say that it doesn't matter.

Ken

 

[watermoccasin]

32 holes is fine. 36 holes is a carryover from the old days when rims were made of crappy metal and needed the extra spokes to hold them together. Today's good rims are plenty strong without extra spokes. One of the fanciest heavy-duty DH/FR wheelsets made, Mavic DeeMaxes, come with only 28 spokes per wheel. My LBS doesn't even carry 36 hole wheels, because it's just not necessary.

Plus, as you are experiencing, 32 hole stuff is easier to find.

 

[Ericmopar]

What the heck do you guys do to wheels ?

I ride aggresive XC at Bootleg Canyon Nv about 3000 miles a year and weigh about 220lbs fully geared.I ride on 32 hole XT hubs and Sun Rhynos with DT 2mm spokes and brass nipples. I don't recommend alloy nipples to anyone ever.
I true the rear about every two months. I've only had to true the front twice in about 14 months and that was only because of the initial break in period. I'm not a highly skilled rider either. I pound clumsily through rock gardens with the worst of them, LOL.
I go through large dropins and g-outs. I also do small drops up to three feet high.
The poor girl said they don't do anything knarly, so why 36 holes?

If you want to build wheels for a clyed that doesn't ride aggressivly 32 holes with DT 2mm spokes and a heavy duty rim, like a Mavic 321, Sun Single track or Sun Rhynos will be fine. Shimano XT disc hubs are heavy, but are way stronger than for they're intended purpose. If you have the money, DT hugis are also awsome hubs.

The best bang for the buck is Price Piont's XT disc on Sun Rhyno lite, wheelset.
Its about $119 plus shipping and handling. It's cheaper than buying the parts and building them yourself. I've bought two sets like that and both actually came trued, dished and tensioned correctly ( unlike a set from Supergo ).

If you want to build your own; I highly prize Sheldon Brown's website. This man will even answer e-mail from a total stranger. I'm not able to add a link for some reason, but I've put in the Web address so you can print it.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#tensioning

Now to find out why I can't do a link with the new PC. I probably can't do it, because it's to easy to do. LOLs.

Later, Eric W.

Ohhhhh! I seeee! It does it automaticaly after I post... Cooooool Maaaaan!

 

[jeffj]

The 321's are pretty burly rims and IMHO, not really necessary unless you ride very aggressively.

The same goes for 36 holes vs. 32.

I built my first wheel last year using a Mavic 317 - 32 holes with # 14 straight gauge spokes) and I have yet to have to true it in over a year of riding. I weigh about 270.

I borrowed a book from a friend on how to do it (Gerd Schraener(sp?) ) was the author. I pretty much followed his technique for a traditional 3 cross pattern.

Good luck with the build. Take your time. I found it fun, interesting and rewarding.

Regards,

 

[demtbiker]

When I started building my own wheels I weighed over 200 and the only other person I;ve built for right now is also over 200 and I only deal with 32 hole rims. Like others have siad they are plenty strong enough if built well.

As far as the wheel components XT hubs are a great choice, I'd probably stick with DT spokes, and for the rim I've had good luck with Salsa Semi's, but they also make a heavier duty Gordo. The Salsa's are good rims and I've recently got them for under $30 from Cambria.

Good Luck

 

[DakotaJockey]

the fewer spokes you have, the more skill required on the part of the builder. Someone like dave thomas or lyle at spinlite could easily build a 28 spoke wheel that could stand up to you, while the nosepicker at the LBS could just as easliy screw up a 36 so that you constantly have to true it. If you know what you are doing 32 spokes will be fine, if not you'll need more, if really not, 36 may be too few.

I totally agree with Joules here. I've been building custom wheels for 22 years, and I cannot count the number of ultralight wheels I have built for Clydes that have held up very well. I myself am 220 lbs and ride agressive XC and my current wheelset is Am.Classic disk hubs, 14/15 DB DT spokes, brass nipples and 32 hole Velocity Aeroheat rims. They have been bombproof for over a year now.

32 hole would be FINE for him IF the wheelbuilder is experienced at proper tensioning and stress relieving to remove windup. If you are intent on doing them yourself, maybe you should stick with 36's.

 

[mahgnillig]

Thanks for the input everyone Ericmopar, we live in Vegas too, Hubby won't ride at Bootleg... he thinks it's too technical for him, so most of our riding together is at Cottonwood (I ride Bootleg alone once in a while). He actually prefers road riding to mountain anyway, which is why I'm pretty sure he won't be riding any drops, jumps or tough rock gardens.

I think based on what I've read here I'm going to stick with the burly components (XT hubs and 321s), but the 32 hole version. Whatever they are they'll hold up way better than the stock wheels that came on his bike, which have had to be retrued twice after bad crashes. If the 32s go out of true from time to time then it will at least give me some good practise with the truing stand Also, thanks for the tip on Sheldon Brown's site... combining that with Zinn's book I should have enough reference material to keep me going.

One more question... are butted or straight gauge spokes generally better for Clydes? I'll be getting DT spokes and brass nipples, but do I go with butted so they flex but don't break, or straight for rigidity?

Thanks,

- Jen.

 

[Condor]

Butted is fine

It puts the metal where it is needed. Check Sheldon's site to get a much lengthier explanation. He is an amazing guy.
I ride the components you chose and think you are on a good course.

Thanks for the input everyone Ericmopar, we live in Vegas too, Hubby won't ride at Bootleg... he thinks it's too technical for him, so most of our riding together is at Cottonwood (I ride Bootleg alone once in a while). He actually prefers road riding to mountain anyway, which is why I'm pretty sure he won't be riding any drops, jumps or tough rock gardens.

I think based on what I've read here I'm going to stick with the burly components (XT hubs and 321s), but the 32 hole version. Whatever they are they'll hold up way better than the stock wheels that came on his bike, which have had to be retrued twice after bad crashes. If the 32s go out of true from time to time then it will at least give me some good practise with the truing stand Also, thanks for the tip on Sheldon Brown's site... combining that with Zinn's book I should have enough reference material to keep me going.

One more question... are butted or straight gauge spokes generally better for Clydes? I'll be getting DT spokes and brass nipples, but do I go with butted so they flex but don't break, or straight for rigidity?

Thanks,

- Jen.

 

[Ericmopar]

Thanks for the input everyone Ericmopar, we live in Vegas too, Hubby won't ride at Bootleg... he thinks it's too technical for him, so most of our riding together is at Cottonwood (I ride Bootleg alone once in a while). He actually prefers road riding to mountain anyway, which is why I'm pretty sure he won't be riding any drops, jumps or tough rock gardens.

I think based on what I've read here I'm going to stick with the burly components (XT hubs and 321s), but the 32 hole version. Whatever they are they'll hold up way better than the stock wheels that came on his bike, which have had to be retrued twice after bad crashes. If the 32s go out of true from time to time then it will at least give me some good practise with the truing stand Also, thanks for the tip on Sheldon Brown's site... combining that with Zinn's book I should have enough reference material to keep me going.

One more question... are butted or straight gauge spokes generally better for Clydes? I'll be getting DT spokes and brass nipples, but do I go with butted so they flex but don't break, or straight for rigidity?

Thanks,

- Jen.

I agree with Condor, butted spokes should be fine as long as they are 14/15 gauge.
The 14 part of the number means they are the equivalent to a 14g. / 2mm spoke at the head and threaded ends. The 15gauge part of the number means they are the equivalent of a 15g / 1.8mm spoke at the center. They cost more than strait 2mm spokes, but will absorb shocks a little better. There isn't that much difference in weight between the straight and butted spokes in the larger diameters, but there is a difference in price, which is why I just stick with the straight gauge spokes. The straight gauge stuff is usually more commonly kept in stock by the local bike shops as well. What you don't want to do, is mix strait and butted spokes, because they tension differently, so the wheel won't stay true as well. I know that All Mountain in Boulder City keeps that stuff in stock as well as The Bike Shop ( thats the name of the place I swear! ) at Pecos and Wigwam in Henderson. The Bike Shop is one of the best places is the Las Vegas Valley, the owner Terry Pitman is a very reputable dude and has a killer mechanic with lots of experiance.
I almost forgot to mention the KHS bike shop on Eastern in Henderson.
Gavin Spaulding is on the KHS team and is a specialist in heavy duty stuff for Black Diamond riding and could be very helpful as well for building heavy duty wheels for your Huby.

If your main man thinks Bootleg is to technical, have him start on the IMBA to POW, Par None loop and the Lower Lake veiw trails. I know when I started riding there 2 years ago, I felt like I was learning to ride all over again. I highly suggest Maxxis Hansventure 2.35 single ply 60 compound tires to the Bootleging Clydesdale. Kenda tires evaporate under our weight.

As a last note; they paved the bike trail from Lake Mead drive in Henderson to the Railroad Pass Casino, so it makes a nice road bike ride.

Later, Eric W.

 

[Ericmopar]

The 321's are pretty burly rims and IMHO, not really necessary unless you ride very aggressively.

The same goes for 36 holes vs. 32.

I built my first wheel last year using a Mavic 317 - 32 holes with # 14 straight gauge spokes) and I have yet to have to true it in over a year of riding. I weigh about 270.

I borrowed a book from a friend on how to do it (Gerd Schraener(sp?) ) was the author. I pretty much followed his technique for a traditional 3 cross pattern.

Good luck with the build. Take your time. I found it fun, interesting and rewarding.

Regards,

I agree with you from a shear strength point of veiw. I've had light weight wheels that would stand up to a clydesdale for XC riding. My point of view on the rim recomendations had more to do with width than weight. The wider rims like the Sun Single Track, Rhyno Lite and Mavic 321s, offer more stability on off camber stuff and better traction for a given tire size than the narrower rims. This stability issue, doesn't seem to bother lighter riders because the tire is less likely to roll over on a narrower (read lighter) rim, with less total bike/rider weight, but the heavier rider and bike combo. deffinately benifits from wider rims, even if using a small 1.95 tire.

Later, Eric W.

 

[Penn State]

I ride mavic XM819's (tubeless!) with XT hubs....killer set.

 

[bear]

me == 230#
bike == 31#
rims == xm321 rear, f219 front (predecessor to xm321), 32h, dt 14/15 db spokes
wheels handbuilt by a local guy (not me, not that good, yet)

front wheel has had minor truing since I got the wheelset in fall '02 - somewhere around 6k miles on it.

rear wheel rebuilt on xm321 after bad crash took out f219 rim, in fall '03. Has had minor truing and two spokes popped since then - somewhere around 2k miles on it.

wheels have been to moab twice for week long excursions, and logged many, many miles in Central Texas (nr Austin). I don't do drops over about 3' cause I'm a wuss, muy bike is better than that though.

double-butted spokes are definitely part of the recipe for long-lived wheels IMHO, allows the dynamic tension to maintain better and handle hits w/o deforming.

+2 on the "brass nips only" comment