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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

Need your advice with this one:
believes that there is no overkill for braking power. For 2 years I'm using the Hope M4 (8 front – 7 rear). As I'm replacing my beloved 2007 Superlight with a brand new 2009 Heckler, I figured its time to try to strengthen the brakes stopping power, modulation, and even more important, extending its working time while pointing down, till its fade away.

Current set up of pads & hoses are the originals: Hope. So maybe replacing these with other manufacturer (Goodridge, Fibrax, Jagwire, ech) can make a difference.

Appreciate any knowledgeable opinion from somebody with experience.

Thanks,

Niv
 

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Braided hoses and floating disks , should be a good improvement, I'm running on my 07 Heckler Hope 4's with braided hoses and 8" front and 7" rear floating disks, very powerful , no fade, and a great feel,standard Hope pads fitted. I think they would be interesting on my 07 Superlight, I run 160mm XTR front and rear , I rode them back to back this weekend the XTR's scared me, they just slow you down slowly, then give up compared to the Hopes.
 

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noMAD man
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I have Goodridge lines on a couple of bikes. The performance increase is very noticeable, especially on the rear. On brake pads, the red EBC models are extremely grippy. The don't last a long time like the sintered pads, but they grab the rotors like crazy. I use them in a couple of rear brake sets that have 6" rotors on heavy duty AM bikes. With Goodridge lines and red EBC pads, they feel like 7 or 8 inch rotors.
 

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As a fat biffa, who melts brakes, I have done much experimentation on brakes :)

EBC reds, as TNC says, are bloody great, but wear out faster than the metal contacts on a scalectrics car. I run reds for front only and only in the dry. Otherwise I've been running Imperial pads, front and rear now for 2 years. They are cheap and chips (before the price of potatoes went up so much) and work really well for me (Mono6Ti and E4).

Braided hoses work well, but don't add much to a system that is already working well. That said, I still love them on my Hope brakes (just put Shimano XTs on my Heckler - they suck, but it could be the bleed). The Hope braised cable kit uses Hope's own fittings, which are, in my opinion, not as nice as Goodridge's own. HEL now make good looking lines, which you fit the ends on with a vice (crimp fit) and if they are anything like their motorbike lines they will be superb.

Floating rotors are good if you cook brakes - but I don't find they add any power of bit unless heat is an issue. I've not warped a floater yet, and I used to warp rotors in France when I had 'solid' discs. Still, they look sexy ;)

In order of preference, IMHO, if I were you, I'd do a full bleed and a reseal (if needed). Then I'd change the pads, then the cables, then the rotors. Actually, I'd sell the brakes on eBay and buy the new Tech X4 ones with braided hoses and floating rotors...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
"Actually, I'd sell the brakes on eBay and buy the new Tech X4 ones with braided hoses and floating rotors..."

Thanks dude. Apreciated the info.
No offence to Hope, but if I went to radical solution, I would have probably chosen the new Saint… ;)
 

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I think the new redesigned stuff from Hope puts them right back at the top of the pile, and i wouldn't look elsewhere.

In my experience and opinion, braided hoses add nothing but durability to a well bled, good quality brake set up. The Hayes standard hose i have seen looked the worst and was easily kinked. The beauty of braided hose is that its a lot more resistant to abrasion and kinking from suspension frames, and from crashes etc.
 

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Niv,

Check the search for Hope M4 and likely a lot of my posts will come up. I use a 2007 M4 on the rear of my bike (originally the front until I upgraded) and my gf uses one on the front of her bike. Both of us are on 183's.

The search will reveal my opinion of the M4 as perhaps on of the better brakes available on the market due to combination of its power and fantastic modulation. Sometimes people mistake the incredible modulation for lack of power because some think it's ok to have on/off brakes. Ultimately, braking power is there and I've never failed to have one finger braking.

Provided your brakes are the ones with composite pistons, you should be fine. Even metallic pistons are fine, but the composites appear to have better manners, along with isolation of the fluid from heat. I believe the metallic piston models can be rebuilt with the composite ones. I have one of these old types, though I've never tried to do a rebuild due to its good condition.

Now that aside, you have a good starting point and those M4's are plenty current with today's offerings. You're at an advantages also in that they use the same brake pads as XT 755 brakes from the past. I have used Shimano's M03 metallic pads with very good results. I also believe since yours was made, the metallic compound and blanks have changed from Hope OEM. I've used the old and the new back to back, with nearly identical results, though I think the new ones have more bite. Typically, I'm on M03 pads. I do not recommend EBC's own compounds. There is too much a sacrifice and there is no need to deviate with these brakes from Hope of Shimano. I don't recommend Goodridge pads, as they are very soft. Their metallics do provide quiet performance, but they don't last, and are closer to organics with a fine metal wire in it. They also cost very close to Hope pads and don't include hardware. The pad material is also slightly thinner, but the backing plates that same amount thicker (1mm).

So stick with metallics, stay away from EBC, Goodridge, and others. I recommend Hope Gold, Shimano M03, or if you can find them, I got some Ritchey pads that are black, but with a lot of metal off Fleabay in 07. They are not bad, but still second to the first two compounds.

Next, of course with a freshening up, a bleed is a good thing, along with cleaning the exterior and around the pistons and lubing with just a small drop of brake fluid on the exterior. As far as the hoses go, there is no difference in feel between composite and SS hoses. The reason some might feel a difference is because the brakes needed to be bled to begin with. I've replaced several sets and they've all been bled well prior, and there was zero difference with the metallic hoses. Again, they can't hurt.

If you want a reasonable difference, you'd upgrade the fluid, but don't go for these super-special $$$ fluids. Go to the local auto parts store, like Autozone, and buy Valvoline Synthetic. While it's DOT 4, don't be scared off. It's not a downgrade and actually offers greater performance as a high performance DOT 4 than some 5.1's, where the difference is primarily viscosity. The stuff is cheap and is low moisture absorbing. It also protects seals and restores them a bit, and provides a bit better lubricity. I first used it in my cars, in the brakes and clutches and had great results, even on bad slave cylinder seals. This will simply give you more stable performance if you heat them up, plus give more consistent performance in the cold.

Clean the rotors, which is a good idea every few months or so. Beyond that, you're set. You can always up rotor size, but that's up to you.

You have great brakes that are very current, and Hope makes them as investments, no throw-away products. Freshening is an easy task, pads are cheap and plentiful, and performance rocks.

al bullit said:
In order of preference, IMHO, if I were you, I'd do a full bleed and a reseal (if needed). Then I'd change the pads, then the cables, then the rotors. Actually, I'd sell the brakes on eBay and buy the new Tech X4 ones with braided hoses and floating rotors...
I don't think changing the cables would enhance performance of the brakes.
 

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noMAD man
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As JC suggests, that Valvoline DOT4 is good stuff. I use it in everything...off road 4X4, dirt motors, etc.

I would really like to try those new Hayes Stroker Ace 4-piston setups. Probably way overkill for my needs but sounds oh-so-F1 in power. My 4 sets of bicycle hydros are those old-school Hayes Mags...one of them a '99 model. These stupid things still work excellently with proper fluid, bleed, pads, and hoses. I also rode one of our shop bikes with a new set of those Avid Elixir models, and I was fairly impressed.
 
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