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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is it just me and my circle of friends or is Boulder and the BMA out to destroy any interesting trail in Boulder. I know this has been discussed in the past but it seems like way too many people are blindly volunteering for BMA. Wife just got back from Hall and complained about more rock removals. They had a crew out there today dumbing down Nelson. Dirty Bismark/Doudy Draw/Marshall/Walker have been completely or partially changed into no-rock, simple, flowy and boring. Seems they like gravel riding more than mountain biking.

You BMA volunteers are giving away valuable time just so Boulder can destroy our trails, you are not helping!
 

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A couple of freeze/thaw cycles and new rocks will pop up. It was be good as old.

Is it just me and my circle of friends or is Boulder and the BMA out to destroy any interesting trail in Boulder. I know this has been discussed in the past but it seems like way too many people are blindly volunteering for BMA. Wife just got back from Hall and complained about more rock removals. They had a crew out there today dumbing down Nelson. Dirty Bismark/Doudy Draw/Marshall/Walker have been completely or partially changed into no-rock, simple, flowy and boring. Seems they like gravel riding more than mountain biking.

You BMA volunteers are giving away valuable time just so Boulder can destroy our trails, you are not helping!
 

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Is it just me and my circle of friends or is Boulder and the BMA out to destroy any interesting trail in Boulder. I know this has been discussed in the past but it seems like way too many people are blindly volunteering for BMA. Wife just got back from Hall and complained about more rock removals. They had a crew out there today dumbing down Nelson. Dirty Bismark/Doudy Draw/Marshall/Walker have been completely or partially changed into no-rock, simple, flowy and boring. Seems they like gravel riding more than mountain biking.

You BMA volunteers are giving away valuable time just so Boulder can destroy our trails, you are not helping!
They didn't dumb down Nelson. They built up a few water bars and made drainage better. I can think of one spot where I think they took out a few small rocks (between the two "summits" of Nelson on the clockwise DH towards the old house), but that's it and it was minor. Counter that with some of the work they did to actually improve the trail, and I appreciate the work this time around. Plus, I don't think this trail work had anything to do with BMA, it's Boulder County and the youth corps doing the work AFAIK.

In general, I agree with your sentiment. But not in this specific instance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sadly I do not think the changes at Walker or Doudy Draw will recover any day soon, major changes. Granted Doudy Draw was rather easy but from my home there were a couple fun options now stupidly easy with way less rocks. I just rode the full loop at Walker after the reroute, this will not recover. It used to be a challenge climbing the north switchbacks. No more, I cleaned all but one steep rock section. I used to enjoy challenging myself, but no more. Now after a mildly difficult section you come out on some uniform flow BS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
They didn't dumb down Nelson. They built up a few water bars and made drainage better. I can think of one spot where I think they took out a few small rocks (between the two "summits" of Nelson on the clockwise DH towards the old house), but that's it and it was minor. Counter that with some of the work they did to actually improve the trail, and I appreciate the work this time around. Plus, I don't think this trail work had anything to do with BMA, it's Boulder County and the youth corps doing the work AFAIK.

In general, I agree with your sentiment. But not in this specific instance.
I have yet to be out there but know my wife's skill and if she is frustrated with the smoothing/rock removal then I think there is a problem. She is on the newish side and feels frustrated with rock removal. How can she up her game when the trails keep getting easier?
Yes in this instance it may not have been BMA but whoever volunteers time for Boulder County are just helping Boulder simplify our trails.
 

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These threads spring up every few weeks here and on some other sites. I wish people would keep a few things in mind:

- Erosion does happen and with the vast number of bikers and heavy rain it happens quickly on the Front Range trails and needs to be repaired. Riding up a 30 foot wide loose road is not fun.

- Most of these trail work days are organized by Boulder City / County or the Forest Service, etc. BMA and other local groups do provide labor but they are not in charge of trail design or deciding what rock to remove. They almost always work under the supervision of the Forest Service and others that are legally bound to follow certain trail rules to avoid trails that will erode or cause other habitat problems.

- In Ned a lot of the complaints about destroyed trails had nothing to do with BMA or NATO. The Forest Service clear cut huge swaths of land which required new trails to be built. A lot of old trails were also on private property.

- And finally - STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT EASY TRAILS. If you honestly go to Marshall Mesa to shred rocks you may want to check out some other areas. I have been telling this to people for 20 years - Go ride Sourdough / 909 / Peaceful Valley / Wapiti / etc if you want no crowds and harder trails. You know what? Those trails still are totally empty even on weekends while people complain that there are 10,000 people at APEX. There are also plenty of other backcountry type trails in Boulder County with no one on them. Go explore.

I am not a member of any of the local trail groups so this is just an outsider's view.
 

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Agree with Porkchop, and if bikers don't show up and volunteer to help out the local land managers, it's much easier for them to rationalize closing trails to bikes. And you get occasional alternate features that certainly never would be built without bikers volunteering.

Also no one ever complains about trails getting harder. Case in point: a number of spots are getting seriously dug out on Little Scraggy. Yet in another few years when they get repaired, someone is going to scream bloody murder about the trail getting dumbed down. Or even Centennial Cone - used to be super smooth only 3-4 years ago, now there are lots of small loose rocks and new rocky sections. Nothing that most of us would notice, but I have since I've been trying to find good places to bring beginner kid mountain bikers.

Also not affiliated with any local trail groups.


P.S. I rode Peaceful Valley/Sourdough/lower SSV yesterday...saw one biker in 3 hours of biking. Trails weren't empty, a fair number of hikers/runners, but as usual mostly within a mile of trailheads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
- Erosion does happen and with the vast number of bikers and heavy rain it happens quickly on the Front Range trails and needs to be repaired. Riding up a 30 foot wide loose road is not fun.
On any of the trails I mentioned where was there anything close to a 30 ft wide loose road? This is about far more than erosion mitigation.

- Most of these trail work days are organized by Boulder City / County or the Forest Service, etc. BMA and other local groups do provide labor but they are not in charge of trail design or deciding what rock to remove. They almost always work under the supervision of the Forest Service and others that are legally bound to follow certain trail rules to avoid trails that will erode or cause other habitat problems.
Yes I realize how the supervision works. The problem is that Boulder has a vision of making more and more of our trails "accessible". And the volunteers are accelerating their process. I have talked to some of the Boulder supervisors, it is not all about erosion control they want to make the trails accessible. One could easily argue that Sourdough etc are in serious need of erosion control. Maybe we should get the county up there to put in place their boilerplate solution, what do you think?

- And finally - STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT EASY TRAILS. If you honestly go to Marshall Mesa to shred rocks you may want to check out some other areas. I have been telling this to people for 20 years - Go ride Sourdough / 909 / Peaceful Valley / Wapiti / etc if you want no crowds and harder trails. You know what? Those trails still are totally empty even on weekends while people complain that there are 10,000 people at APEX. There are also plenty of other backcountry type trails in Boulder County with no one on them. Go explore.
This is not about going to Marshal to shred rocks, that is not what I said. My point on the trails I mentioned was that they are accessible after work and getting to the point of not even being mountain biking. I would never ride any of the trails I mentioned on a weekend except for Walker/Hall. I am well aware of other options but again they are mostly a weekend only option.
 

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bacon! bacon! bacon!
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How long have you been here?

Because those trails were likely *originally* smooth singletrack. Just because they are doing maintenance doesn't mean they are "destroying the trails."

Basically - quitcherbitchin'... :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
How long have you been here?

Because those trails were likely *originally* smooth singletrack. Just because they are doing maintenance doesn't mean they are "destroying the trails."
Do you actually ride any of the trails I mentioned, or you just trolling? Maintenance and rerouting are not the same. Those I mentioned had been in about the same condition even before 2013.
 

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Do you actually ride any of the trails I mentioned, or you just trolling? Maintenance and rerouting are not the same. Those I mentioned had been in about the same condition even before 2013.
Generally re-routes are due to an old line requiring *excessive* maintenance. See Green Mountain for an example.

These trail organizations are not doing this work just to pee in your Wheaties. They do this stuff for a reason.

So, basically, qwitcherbichen. :)
 
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