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Shouldn't MASS cancel the race this weekend? I think there is no doubt that this race is going to mangle the trails. Shouldn't MASS teach respect for the land we ride on?
 

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Inbred Homebrewer
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Absolutely.

No doubt they should reschedule the race. Probably won't happen though. Rain never stopped them from running the race in the past.
 

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my church is the woods
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No

In 14 years of mtb riding and racing I've never seen any PERMANANT damage done to trails by riding em' when it's muddy. Sure it leaves tracks in the mud. and some stupid people widen the trails by not going through the deeper stuff (that's the real damage). It always returns to normal after a few heavy rain storms, or by halfway through summer when things are so overgrown you can hardly find the trail anymore.

That being said, I myself usually stay away from blue marsh until it's been dry for a while. It's like beginner level trail anyway, except for the distance.
 

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It's really not going to be muddy. I was just there Tuesday, just a couple days after the rains, and it was not an issue of mud. 97% of the trail was bone dry and 3% was underwater, completely impassable. There was very, very little actual mud. So I really don't think you understand the issue.
 

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Inbred Homebrewer
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Tim C. said:
It's really not going to be muddy. I was just there Tuesday, just a couple days after the rains, and it was not an issue of mud. 97% of the trail was bone dry and 3% was underwater, completely impassable. There was very, very little actual mud. So I really don't think you understand the issue.
You were there tuesday, but the Reading area just recieved an additional 1.11" of rain yesterday (more in certain areas). Roughly 2.25" fell between April 1-3.

Like I said in my previous post, I doubt it will prevent the race from happening...but that doesn't mean one shouldn't think twice about riding in it.
 

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I'm not trying to be a jerk but why can't you just admit when you are in error. This was posted on the MASS matters group discussion today:

I rode the course today, IT IS DRY, YES I SAID DRY,, Did two laps, Three wet spots 75 yards long. cut drains in them !!! It will be in GREAT shape by race day !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jay

If you had been there recently you would see/know that there is not going any problem for Sunday's race. It will be 98% dry. It just does not seem fair that you are accusing people of potentially wrecking the trails when it's obvious that mud is not going to be an issue. Why would you assume you know how course conditions will be?
 

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Inbred Homebrewer
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Tim C. said:
I'm not trying to be a jerk but why can't you just admit when you are in error.<snip>It just does not seem fair that you are accusing people of potentially wrecking the trails when it's obvious that mud is not going to be an issue. Why would you assume you know how course conditions will be?
lol. "Accuse people of potentially wrecking the trails?"

Show me where I accused anyone of anything. I'm not the one who started the thread. All I said (or implied) was that the organizers of the race have not (in recent years) shown any regard for trail conditions when running the BM race (case in point 2003, for example.)

IF the course is in good shape, then that's fine. I fail to see how "underwater; completely impassable" qualifies as 'in great shape'.

Take a breath. I'm not trying to attack anyone for wanting to race.
 

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Stick said:
lol. "Accuse people of potentially wrecking the trails?"

Show me where I accused anyone of anything.
You wrote: No doubt they should reschedule the race.

Why else should they reshedule the race if not for racers wrecking the trails?

Don't worry, my breathing patterns are fine.
 

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Inbred Homebrewer
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Tim C. said:
You wrote: No doubt they should reschedule the race.

Why else should they reshedule the race if not for racers wrecking the trails?
ac·cuse ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-kyz)
v. ac·cused, ac·cus·ing, ac·cus·es
v. tr.
To charge with a shortcoming or error.
To charge formally with a wrongdoing.

The statement above re: rescheduling is not an accusation. It's my opinion, supported by your own assesment of the course and those of other posters in earlier threads (coupled with the fact that more than an inch of additional rain had fallen since both you & Scalpel90 declared sections of the course as completely submerged and 'impassable').

Honestly, this is a situation where I'd be more than happy to be dead wrong. It's not like I sat around hoping that the course would be sloppy and unrideable just so I could say, "Told ya so!". Since the race was going to happen come hell or high water, I'd much rather be wrong and have everyone ride a dry course leaving little impact on the trail than be right and see the trail mucked up and torn to s$%^&.

FWIW, I was wrong about at least one thing. It was 2002 that they ran the course in a steady rain, not 2003 as stated above.

So, how was this year's course anyway?
 

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Stick said:
ac·cuse ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-kyz)
v. ac·cused, ac·cus·ing, ac·cus·es
v. tr.
To charge with a shortcoming or error.
To charge formally with a wrongdoing.

The statement above re: rescheduling is not an accusation. It's my opinion, supported by your own assesment of the course and those of other posters in earlier threads (coupled with the fact that more than an inch of additional rain had fallen since both you & Scalpel90 declared sections of the course as completely submerged and 'impassable').

Honestly, this is a situation where I'd be more than happy to be dead wrong. It's not like I sat around hoping that the course would be sloppy and unrideable just so I could say, "Told ya so!". Since the race was going to happen come hell or high water, I'd much rather be wrong and have everyone ride a dry course leaving little impact on the trail than be right and see the trail mucked up and torn to s$%^&.

FWIW, I was wrong about at least one thing. It was 2002 that they ran the course in a steady rain, not 2003 as stated above.

So, how was this year's course anyway?
The course was in excellent shape. There was only one section about 50 yards or less of mud. The rest was completly dry and dusty.
 

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Stick said:
ac·cuse ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-kyz)
v. ac·cused, ac·cus·ing, ac·cus·es
v. tr.
To charge with a shortcoming or error.
To charge formally with a wrongdoing.

The statement above re: rescheduling is not an accusation. It's my opinion, supported by your own assesment of the course and those of other posters in earlier threads (coupled with the fact that more than an inch of additional rain had fallen since both you & Scalpel90 declared sections of the course as completely submerged and 'impassable').

Honestly, this is a situation where I'd be more than happy to be dead wrong. It's not like I sat around hoping that the course would be sloppy and unrideable just so I could say, "Told ya so!". Since the race was going to happen come hell or high water, I'd much rather be wrong and have everyone ride a dry course leaving little impact on the trail than be right and see the trail mucked up and torn to s$%^&.

FWIW, I was wrong about at least one thing. It was 2002 that they ran the course in a steady rain, not 2003 as stated above.

So, how was this year's course anyway?
Yo Stick. You are making this more complex than it really is. If I tell someone that they should n't do something, Is not the implication that something they are doing is potentially wrong or hazardous? Which fits perfectly with your above-stated definition. Why else would else would I tell some that they should n't do something other than accussing them of doing something potentially wrong or hazardous?
 

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Inbred Homebrewer
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Tim C. said:
Yo Stick. You are making this more complex than it really is.
I'm not the one who keeps beating this dead horse! Are you somehow involved in organizing the MASS? If you want to split hairs, I never wrote that people shouldn't race there. This whole thread caught fire when I wrote that the race organizers *should* reschedule because we'd just been hit by a 50 yr flood and, in the days leading up to the race, people (yourself included) were reporting that part of the course was under water! And, on top of that, another storm came along and dumped an addtional 1 - 1.25" of rain on the already "submerged" course.

Based on the information I had at the time, that was my opinion. I didn't want to see the trails looking like they did after the 2002 race, plain and simple. What part of that don't understand? (btw, I'm not trying to sound condescending. I just don't understand how someone who wrote that portions of the course were completely submerged and "impassable" would not understand why I felt the race should be rescheduled.

I'm happy that it dried up (most of it, anyway) before the race, but other than that, I'm not sure what you expect me to say. Am I not entitled to my opinion simply because you disagree with it?

P.S. Let me ask you this... Go here: https://www.mountainbikeracer.com/past_news/april_28_02_bluemarsh.htm

Look at the pics. Should this race have been rescheduled?

 

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Stick said:
I'm not the one who keeps beating this dead horse! Are you somehow involved in organizing the MASS? If you want to split hairs, I never wrote that people shouldn't race there. This whole thread caught fire when I wrote that the race organizers *should* reschedule because we'd just been hit by a 50 yr flood and, in the days leading up to the race, people (yourself included) were reporting that part of the course was under water! And, on top of that, another storm came along and dumped an addtional 1 - 1.25" of rain on the already "submerged" course.

Based on the information I had at the time, that was my opinion. I didn't want to see the trails looking like they did after the 2002 race, plain and simple. What part of that don't understand? (btw, I'm not trying to sound condescending. I just don't understand how someone who wrote that portions of the course were completely submerged and "impassable" would not understand why I felt the race should be rescheduled.

I'm happy that it dried up (most of it, anyway) before the race, but other than that, I'm not sure what you expect me to say. Am I not entitled to my opinion simply because you disagree with it?

P.S. Let me ask you this... Go here: https://www.mountainbikeracer.com/past_news/april_28_02_bluemarsh.htm

Look at the pics. Should this race have been rescheduled?

Wet trails will eventually heal, but I agree that weather should be a factor in holding the races. What's worse in my opinion is the fact that I picked up about 20 some gu packets, some power bar wrappers and three or four water bottles last night. If MASS isn't going to clean up after themselves I'd rather they not come back.
 

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Stick, thats fine. Just don't start a semantical battle because I doubt you will win (I have a Master's degree in Philosophy...that means I understand language very well). Hence I do not need "accuse" defined for me (thats pretty condescending). Anyway, "underwater" is not mud, there was not a mud problem, there were just a few spots were you just could not get by and it turns out that the lake receeded and the course was nearly completely mud-free. Its fine that you were concerned about mud and it turned out fine....no big deal. Anyone could be wrong about something like that, but you were pretty condcending at times. And, by the way, I agree with you that they should not hold a race in the conditions shown in that photo.
 

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ctg said:
What's worse in my opinion is the fact that I picked up about 20 some gu packets, some power bar wrappers and three or four water bottles last night. If MASS isn't going to clean up after themselves I'd rather they not come back.
True that. What the hell is wrong with people? How can you be a mountain biker, somebody who should appreciate the beauty of the woods, and leave your trash around? If I hear one more story about someone throwing GU wrapers on the trails...I think I am going to puke. I seriously think if you are caught littering during a race you should be kicked out of the series for the year. Seriously.
 

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Inbred Homebrewer
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Tim C. said:
Stick, thats fine. Just don't start a semantical battle because I doubt you will win (I have a Master's degree in Philosophy...that means I understand language very well).
Please, Tim. There's no need to bust out your CV.

Tim C. said:
Anyway, "underwater" is not mud....And, by the way, I agree with you that they should not hold a race in the conditions shown in that photo.
See, that's just it. In 2002, no portion of the course would have been described as 'under water', yet it was a complete and utter mess. I suppose I had a difficult time envisioning a scenario where it rained enough to raise the lake level to the point where the course was partially submerged, yet somehow the same rain failed to make the trail muddy.

I guess it's just a testament to how quickly the soil drains around BM. Regardless, this is a moot debate at this point, and I've got to get to work.

Less banter, more riding! :D

(edit: just wondering about your take on this... If I tell my son that he should brush his teeth at night, am I accusing him of something? Or just suggesting that he do something good for his teeth?)
 

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Stick said:
(edit: just wondering about your take on this... If I tell my son that he should brush his teeth at night, am I accusing him of something? Or just suggesting that he do something good for his teeth?)
Agreed. Except I don't know what "CV" means. And I think you would be implicitly accusing your son of potentially committing wrong-doing (not brushing his teeth) with your suggestion. It's the same as if I tell my alcoholic girlfriend not to drink wine, I think it's just as good as an accusation, warning someone of potentially doing the wrong thing (because if they don't do what you suggest, obviously, you believe, they are wrong). Sorry, you got to go to work, I'm going to go riding now (not trying to be a jerk). Take care.
 
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