[adamantane]

still love my old cannondale prophet...it can change HTA from 69 to 67.5 with a simple change to the shock pivot point...looking for a 29" wheeled bike that can do a similar geo change as i ride mostly XC, don't want a too slacked out trail bike but would like to have that option on more downcountry focused days...any suggestions?

 

[eb1888]

It'll need some upgrades.

 

[adamantane]

It'll need some upgrades.

the medium element has a wheelbase of 1202 mm, thats a boat

 

[flying bison]

the medium element has a wheelbase of 1202 mm, thats a boat

Welcome to the new age of low long and slack. The slacker HT of bikes these days stretches the wheelbase on modern bikes. Modern 120mm 29ers have 2-2.5 degree slacker headtubes than what you're on, and the only way to shrink the wheelbase is to shorten the rear triangle, which you can only go so far doing, or to reduce the effective top tube, which is gonna make things cramped.

YT izzo, Santa Cruz tallboy, and transition spur all seem to fit your needs.. the spur doesn't have a flip chip though.

 

[PhillipJ]

Ride XC or Race XC?

If it's just riding for fun, get a slacker bike and adjust your riding a bit. Long, slack bikes handle fine on flatter trails.

 

[eb1888]

the medium element has a wheelbase of 1202 mm, thats a boat

436 chainstay deboats it.

 

[adamantane]

the small frame rocky mtn element has reach of 433…which is closer to my phophet of 420…also smal element has wb of 1173 which seems more reasinable but way longer than my medium prophet wb = 1117

 

[Blatant]

Folks have reasonably explained this. Bigger wheels + slacker head angles + rear end that more closely matches reach = longer wheelbase.

If you have any experience at all, you’ll adjust in 10 minutes and all will be right with the world.

 

[adamantane]

looking at the giant anthem 29, has 1133 wb in medium with 69 hta and 175 mm cranks, which seems reasonable for all day riding and most similar to my prophet

 

[milehi]

Guerrilla Gravity.

 

[rideit]

My Element is the quickest bike I have ever ridden.
And this is going back to Klein Adroits.
The numbers don’t tell the ride story.

 

[fly4130]

Guerrilla Gravity.

Word. As someone who is always between sizes and will only have one or two bikes in the stable for all types of riding their implementation of the "flip chip" plus adjustable headset cups has them at the top of the list for me and in all likelihood I will be on one in the wee months of 2022.

 

[stripes]

Add Specialized and Ventana to your list of bikes with flip chips.

 

[Nat]

Don't most bikes have some sort of flip chip these days? Here are a couple more from which to choose:

Trek Fuel EX: Fuel EX | Trek Bikes

Evil The Following: Evil Bikes USA

 

[stripes]

Don't most bikes have some sort of flip chip these days? Here are a couple more from which to choose:

Trek Fuel EX: Fuel EX | Trek Bikes

Evil The Following: Evil Bikes USA

Not every bike, but it's a lot more common than I thought it was.

 

[jeremy3220]

Are you specifically wanting a bike with a similar head angle range (67.5-69)? or something more modern.

The issue I have with shock mount flip chips that have large angle changes is they decrease the head angle of both the HTA and STA. You either end up with too steep of a STA in the high/steep position or too slack of a STA in the low position. It makes more sense to have a steeper STA paired with a slack HTA (unless you only use the slack position when shuttling/lift access). Anglesets are a different story though. So if you really want the adjustability I'd be looking at something with a headset adjustment instead of just a large adjustment shock flip chip.

 

[adamantane]

Are you specifically wanting a bike with a similar head angle range (67.5-69)? or something more modern.

The issue I have with shock mount flip chips that have large angle changes is they decrease the head angle of both the HTA and STA. You either end up with too steep of a STA in the high/steep position or too slack of a STA in the low position. It makes more sense to have a steeper STA paired with a slack HTA (unless you only use the slack position when shuttling/lift access). Anglesets are a different story though. So if you really want the adjustability I'd be looking at something with a headset adjustment instead of just a large adjustment shock flip chip.

yeah, i should have said i want the 69 and 67.5 headtube angle...it was a really great mix for full on xc at 69 degrees...or freeride/downhill at 67.5...the bikes these days are starting at 67.5 and go slacker than that...so that there is no xc ability any longer...like real xc going both uphill and downhill...i ride the prophet in xc mode all day long and it is great...when you put it in FR mode you loose the all day riding but gain in donhill of course....the only modern bike i can find with 69 head tube is the giant anthem 29...and it looks like the 2022 model might be going slacker by the one photo i saw...such a shame..

 

[eb1888]

the small frame rocky mtn element has reach of 433…which is closer to my phophet of 420…also smal element has wb of 1173 which seems more reasinable but way longer than my medium prophet wb = 1117

When you look at reach include your stem length. The Rocky has 50mm stock. You can swap to 35mm.
It also has 25mm riser bars with 9* backsweep. 780 width bars. Reach is 425 to 433 with a small when adjusting from slack to steep. So total with stem is 475 to 483.
It also has a 76-76.8* seat tube ngle. This is likely steeper than your bike. That steepness eats up some reach when pedaling seated.

 

[TwoTone]

Folks have reasonably explained this. Bigger wheels + slacker head angles + rear end that more closely matches reach = longer wheelbase.

If you have any experience at all, you’ll adjust in 10 minutes and all will be right with the world.

It's not just about experience. Everyone has a riding style and what they like.
I don't get along with the newer geo in our rolling terrain.

 

[goldsbar]

...the bikes these days are starting at 67.5 and go slacker than that...so that there is no xc ability any longer...like real xc going both uphill and downhill..

I politely disagree. Take it FWIW. I'm an old XC lycra weenie starting from the early 90s. I have the new model Slash that I consider very capable and fun on all sorts of terrain. The chip is on max slack and I'll never change it. I have other more XC oriented bikes as well, but the Slash does very well at that type of riding. Modern bikes kick ass.