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Discussion Starter · #1 ·


Given the silliness of the fatbike bike/tire/part release fiascos we've seen over the years I thought it worthy to note a bike release done right.

For your safety please don't read this while standing or operating any machinery.
;)

- Santa Cruz ads for a new Nomad MK3 come out a week before the 1 Apr 2014 release date.

- before that nothing said by SC about a new bike or new Nomad in particular

- 1 April all the product info hits the web with videos and pics and specs

==== now the truly insane part ====

- Bikes available for sale as of 1 April 2014...sitting in warehouses in the US

====================================

If you are like me your mind is blown so let's recap...

- no months of hype

- no taking your $$$ and making you wait

- no partial releases of specs and then changes or uncertainty

====================================

Just BAM!!! - awesome bike - want one?....sure here we'll ship it to you today! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Props to Santa Cruz for a bike release handled like professionals. :cool:
 

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Given the silliness of the fatbike bike/tire/part release fiascos we've seen over the years I thought it worthy to note a bike release done right.

For your safety please don't read this while standing or operating any machinery.
;)

- Santa Cruz ads for a new Nomad MK3 come out a week before the 1 Apr 2014 release date.

- before that nothing said by SC about a new bike or new Nomad in particular

- 1 April all the product info hits the web with videos and pics and specs

==== now the truly insane part ====

- Bikes available for sale as of 1 April 2014...sitting in warehouses in the US

====================================

If you are like me your mind is blown so let's recap...

- no months of hype

- no taking your $$$ and making you wait

- no partial releases of specs and then changes or uncertainty

====================================

Just BAM!!! - awesome bike - want one?....sure here we'll ship it to you today! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Props to Santa Cruz for a bike release handled like professions. :cool:
I kind of get your point, but you have to acknowledge how much harder it is to do this with fat-related stuff.

For one thing, the Santa Cruz just looks like any other old bike out there, so it would be easy to disguise on the "test" trail. But think about this forum in particular, and how we've relentlessly searched out every nugget of rumor for years now, speculated on their implications when we found them, and dissected products publicly before we've ever had them in our hands.

Fat bikes were/are a lot harder to be discreet with during product testing, just because they're so unique. I for one kind of like the way that the manufacturers have taken our feedback and experiences and incorporated it. Novelty is starting to wane now, but it's really been a whole new game and learning curve for everyone, and it's been fun to be a part of the process - even on a small scale - warts and all.
 

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Yeah, I have a fondness for simple and direct. I don't want blurry teaser photos, I just want a bike. As someone who's run into prototypes more than once out in the field, I get that people are gonna talk about what they see. You can't control for that. But posting blurry shots on your blog and then refusing to talk about them and basically fueling speculation, that's just annoying as hell.

Even rockshox only teased for a couple days before releasing their new fork.
 

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And you didn't even mention the quality of the video that they mode for the intro. Last year there were rumors about what the bike was going to be before they released the Bronson. Maybe I didn't notice this year since I've been hanging out in the Fat forum more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I kind of get your point, but you have to acknowledge how much harder it is to do this with fat-related stuff.

For one thing, the Santa Cruz just looks like any other old bike out there, so it would be easy to disguise on the "test" trail. But think about this forum in particular, and how we've relentlessly searched out every nugget of rumor for years now, speculated on their implications when we found them, and dissected products publicly before we've ever had them in our hands.

Fat bikes were/are a lot harder to be discreet with during product testing, just because they're so unique. I for one kind of like the way that the manufacturers have taken our feedback and experiences and incorporated it. Novelty is starting to wane now, but it's really been a whole new game and learning curve for everyone, and it's been fun to be a part of the process - even on a small scale - warts and all.
Proto-photos were out months before the release. Lot's of fanboi rumours and speculation. No way they could hide that, but SC stayed quiet and only dropped the info when they had bikes to sell.

If you look at the new Nomad SC certainly listened to feedback from riders of the current models to make improvements.

They didn't do anything a fatbike company couldn't do and I think raising expectations just to disappoint people with mega delays isn't really helpful for anyone. It puts the company under huge pressure and the customer get's pissed off.

I like Surly, but they announced a 29+ dirt wizard tire Sep 2013 that *might* hit the shelves Aug/Sep 2014....making a lot of people unhappy. Imagine if they had said nothing and just released that tire this fall...folks would be stoked to see it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Also, releasing it on April 1 generates even more buzz due to "is it real or April Fools"
SC is at a point now with 1 Apr releases where they "own" that date and everyone knows it's for real. The first time they did a 1 Apr release it had that uncertainty...not any more. Now folks just look forward to 1 Apr to see what's going to come out.
 

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I like Surly, but they announced a 29+ dirt wizard tire Sep 2013 that *might* hit the shelves Aug/Sep 2014....making a lot of people unhappy. Imagine if they had said nothing and just released that tire this fall...folks would be stoked to see it.
Bingo- it's a dangerous game that can turn on you quickly.

Velo-Orange handles this sort of thing really amazingly well. They order a prototype, test it, send it back,get a second prototype and then build it up and tell people what they're doing on their blog. They even ask the customer's opinions on things. Then, they order up whatever they prototyped and they are very, very open about shipping times (container held in customs/ship arrived early/whatever).

They also feedback what customers say they want but don't actually buy.

Rivendell does similar, though they tend to be a little more opaque about arrival times.

Heck, Little bitty Rawland pretty much walks customers through the whole process- they practically crowd source their bikes.

Not saying these are practices that will always scale to a larger manufacturer, but they are definitely more transparent and a lot less frustrating. They basically allow no speculation to build up which does a fantastic job of keeping expectations rational.
 

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It says a lot about the state of the industry (and the world?) when merely delivering what you promise is praiseworthy.
 

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is buachail foighneach me
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....
They didn't do anything a fatbike company couldn't do and I think raising expectations just to disappoint people with mega delays isn't really helpful for anyone. It puts the company under huge pressure and the customer get's pissed off.

I like Surly, but they announced a 29+ dirt wizard tire Sep 2013 that *might* hit the shelves Aug/Sep 2014....making a lot of people unhappy. Imagine if they had said nothing and just released that tire this fall...folks would be stoked to see it.
Santa Cruz can be pretty certain at this point that anything they make will probably sell really well. A lot of the players in the fat bike market are in a position to lose a lot more(proportionately, personally) than a bigger company like SC. The bigger players that are in the fat bike world now are a little nervous about making sure their investment is going to pay off in a niche market. 29+ is a niche within a niche. I'm sure Surly was more interested in whether that announcement would generate enough interest to keep their confidence level in the sales high.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Santa Cruz can be pretty certain at this point that anything they make will probably sell really well. A lot of the players in the fat bike market are in a position to lose a lot more(proportionately, personally) than a bigger company like SC. The bigger players that are in the fat bike world now are a little nervous about making sure their investment is going to pay off in a niche market. 29+ is a niche within a niche. I'm sure Surly was more interested in whether that announcement would generate enough interest to keep their confidence level in the sales high.
Surly is just one of many fronts for QBP [one of the biggest bike industry companies in NA] targeting different markets. When was the last time Surly built something that didn't sell reasonably well? The last thing I can recall that bit the dust was a unicycle a few years back.

Santa Cruz created, killed and blew out two main bike models [Nickel and Butcher] in recent years when their plans didn't come together. So they do miss the mark sometimes.

I don't think Surly's 12 month+ delay on delivering the Dirt Wizard is doing anything good for 29+ sales. It's certainly not building confidence in the customer base that they'll get the support they need to make a new platform viable.

There was a lot of buzz around the Krampus last year. The ECR hasn't made as big a splash and the question folks keep asking is "So there is only one 29+ tire" and it doesn't work well for a lot of people. When the DW eventually gets released Surly will have to build the 29+ stoke back up.

The way to make their investment pay off in the 29+ market was to deliver the key products they announced. Even a September announcement and a April delivery would have been okay in the sense that's not all that untypical.
 

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All fat, all the time.
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A carbon full suspension frame is going to flex less than a carbon version......
The hardtail Carver fat frames are around 1200....add some pivots and a rear shock, shouldn't more than double the price, I'd bet they'd sell a whole lot more at 2499.

Or a fat Chameleon...


AND

Says the guy who scoffs at $3000 ti full suspension frames... The Carbon Tallboy is already $3k. Make it fat and you're looking at $3.5k - $4k...
 

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A carbon full suspension frame is going to flex less than a carbon version......
The hardtail Carver fat frames are around 1200....add some pivots and a rear shock, shouldn't more than double the price, I'd bet they'd sell a whole lot more at 2499.
I don't know where this stuff is coming from, but the $1200 bike frame is a production run frame from Asia. The full suspension frame is a hand built custom(not sure where it's built). You can even spec your own geometry or add-ons.

A production Fat suspension frame would likely only be marginally more expensive than an equivalent "non-fat" frame.
 

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I think you can spec certain things on the other frames too, not sure where they come from, assumed same place that builds the rest of the frames....
Dunno, I wasn't the one to bring these up in this thread lol.


I don't know where this stuff is coming from, but the $1200 bike frame is a production run frame from Asia. The full suspension frame is a hand built custom(not sure where it's built). You can even spec your own geometry or add-ons.

A production Fat suspension frame would likely only be marginally more expensive than an equivalent "non-fat" frame.
 
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