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Disgruntled Peccary
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It'd be interesting to be able to compare the Revel CBF to Canfield. Once we can start to do things like demos again. I agree though, I've been really impressed with CBF in that it feels like it just doesn't matter where you are in your suspension travel. Yes, it is very nice on rocky climbs btw.
 

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Yeah, I agree with your points. I definitely need to demo a Revel Rascal. It sounds cool but I have to see how much energy it saps on a consistent climb 2K+) that has a lot of roots and rocks. I'm familiar with the DWL and Switch Infinity so it isn't as critical but always preferable if I can find one. I would not buy a Revel or Specialized Stumpy with a test ride, but I did buy the Ripley without a test ride. I have owned a Mojo and ridden an older Ripley.

The CBF suspension on the Revel bikes feels more active than DW-link designs generally. It seems to separate suspension action and chain forces more than DW-link designs I've ridden, But the Revel bikes also feel less snappy and immediate while climbing than do DW-link bikes from Ibis and Pivot. The Revel bikes might be really ideal for very rocky or rooty trails on which more isolation between suspension movement and pedaling is desirable.

Once demos start again, I need to ride more of the newer Horst-link designs. My impression is that most Horst link designs need some level of compression damping to climb well.

For me, being able to do demo rides is an important factor in determining how much I'm willing to pay for a certain bike.
 

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Yeah, I agree with your points. I definitely need to demo a Revel Rascal. It sounds cool but I have to see how much energy it saps on a consistent climb 2K+) that has a lot of roots and rocks. I'm familiar with the DWL and Switch Infinity so it isn't as critical but always preferable if I can find one. I would not buy a Revel or Specialized Stumpy with a test ride, but I did buy the Ripley without a test ride. I have owned a Mojo and ridden an older Ripley.
I absolutely love my Mojo 4.
 

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Discussion Starter · #84 ·
My Spot Mayhem with patented suspension...variance of DW link...No pedal bob...it's the real deal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #86 ·
A $5500-9000 bike currently. There's some irony there.
As I mentioned at the start of this post...I paid $5200 for the 5 star level of that bike in 2020. Same bike at 5 star level is now $6700. That's bike shop pricing with a middle man...not DTC pricing. Covid is just an excuse to raise prices and consumers are falling for it.
 

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Disgruntled Peccary
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As I mentioned at the start of this post...I paid $5200 for the 5 star level of that bike in 2020. Same bike at 5 star level is now $6700. That's bike shop pricing with a middle man...not DTC pricing.
It's still FAR from a DTC bike or DTC price, but you've been arguing there's no difference in bikes other than cost since then.

So yea, it's still weird. But there's a lot of overhead that's missed with DTC, which is really one of the biggest reasons they're cheaper.
 

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Self Appointed Judge&Jury
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I've seen 3-4 year old bikes trying to be sold for MSRP.

And if anyone is paying at or near full retail for a used bike...A fool and his money are soon parted.
And in this era of carbon fiber bikes it’s the worst time to buy used. Not knowing what care or abuse the previous owner or owners did is pretty scary for the coin shelled out.
 

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As I mentioned at the start of this post...I paid $5200 for the 5 star level of that bike in 2020. Same bike at 5 star level is now $6700. That's bike shop pricing with a middle man...not DTC pricing. Covid is just an excuse to raise prices and consumers are falling for it.
Have you done even a quick google on the cost of shipping before covid and now?
The fact you keep pushing covid is an excuse shows how truly ignorant you are of what's happened.

You need to get a clue. You expect bike companies to absorb a quadrupled shipping price? Doesn't matter direct to consumer or not- they have to ship from the factory in Asia.

From one of many articles covering the issues

"Prices to ship containers from Asia to the U.S. and Europe are rising at a historic pace as cargo owners bid up rates in a search for ocean transportation capacity that shipping industry executives expect to remain tight for the rest of the year.
The average price world-wide to ship a 40-foot container has more than quadrupled from a year ago, to $8,399 as of July 1, according to a global pricing index by London-based Drewry Shipping Consultants Ltd. The measure has surged 53.5% since the first week of May.
Listed prices to ship from China to major ports in Europe and the U.S. West Coast are closer to $12,000 a container, by Drewry’s measure, and some companies say they are being charged $20,000 for last-minute agreements to get goods onto outbound vessels.
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“Now everything is overbooked,” he said. “Shippers are desperate to book tomorrow. It’s more a bidding war than it is a traditional tariff and this bidding war is accelerating. Some of these $23,000, $24,000 prices include the inland distribution cost and that can easily add far more to the final cost.”
...
Mr. Damas said he expects the strains on container shipping to “remain critical” until the Lunar New Year in early 2022, the holiday when Chinese factories typically shut down.
“There is no end in sight,” he said. “There is no way during this peak season that things will improve. The backlogs and delays will only deteriorate.”
 

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Have you done even a quick google on the cost of shipping before covid and now?
The fact you keep pushing covid is an excuse shows how truly ignorant you are of what's happened.

You need to get a clue. You expect bike companies to absorb a quadrupled shipping price? Doesn't matter direct to consumer or not- they have to ship from the factory in Asia.

From one of many articles covering the issues

"Prices to ship containers from Asia to the U.S. and Europe are rising at a historic pace as cargo owners bid up rates in a search for ocean transportation capacity that shipping industry executives expect to remain tight for the rest of the year.
The average price world-wide to ship a 40-foot container has more than quadrupled from a year ago, to $8,399 as of July 1, according to a global pricing index by London-based Drewry Shipping Consultants Ltd. The measure has surged 53.5% since the first week of May.
Listed prices to ship from China to major ports in Europe and the U.S. West Coast are closer to $12,000 a container, by Drewry’s measure, and some companies say they are being charged $20,000 for last-minute agreements to get goods onto outbound vessels.
.....
“Now everything is overbooked,” he said. “Shippers are desperate to book tomorrow. It’s more a bidding war than it is a traditional tariff and this bidding war is accelerating. Some of these $23,000, $24,000 prices include the inland distribution cost and that can easily add far more to the final cost.”
...
Mr. Damas said he expects the strains on container shipping to “remain critical” until the Lunar New Year in early 2022, the holiday when Chinese factories typically shut down.
“There is no end in sight,” he said. “There is no way during this peak season that things will improve. The backlogs and delays will only deteriorate.”
So instead of costing $30 to ship a bike it is now $90? I am no math PhD but 60 seems like it is a lot smaller than 1500.
 

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Ibis Ripley V4
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So instead of costing $30 to ship a bike it is now $90? I am no math PhD but 60 seems like it is a lot smaller than 1500.
Now do that with EVERYTHING.

Frames, fork, drivetrain, brakes...

On top of price increases because of raw material prices also going through the roof, discounts evaporating...

Some people should really take a basic economics class before they jump into this rabbit hole.
 

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Discussion Starter · #92 ·
Have you done even a quick google on the cost of shipping before covid and now?
The fact you keep pushing covid is an excuse shows how truly ignorant you are of what's happened.

You need to get a clue. You expect bike companies to absorb a quadrupled shipping price? Doesn't matter direct to consumer or not- they have to ship from the factory in Asia.
Yes I have researched it. It's called exploitative practices and pricing. It's time for authorities to intervene with this exploitative behavior.



 

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Discussion Starter · #93 ·
For the record...I work for a company that supplies products to the home building industry. Products that go into homes that $1 million or more. We haven't raised our prices or shipping costs to our customers.
 

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I own a Spot Rollik and I consider it the best all-mtn 27.5 when it comes to climbing. I like the bike quite a bit.
 

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Ibis Ripley V4
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Yes I have researched it. It's called exploitative practices and pricing. It's time for authorities to intervene with this exploitative behavior.



It's a bidding process.

"Authorities" are going to do absolutely nothing about shipping prices.

This is about as basic as supply and demand gets.

To use an obvious and extreme example, just look at the thread about the Carrera GT that just sold for $1.3 million. Your attitude is that "authorities" should get involved in that transaction because you can't buy a Carrera GT for $440,000 anymore. As long as people are willingly and openly throwing their money at these people for the products and services they are offering, nothing is going to be regulated.

I see the benefit in this disaster. This is forcing a lot of companies to reconsider WHERE their resources and products are coming from. To see manufacturing and jobs come to our side of the ocean is nothing but a benefit for us. A lot more companies are thinking about 'local" sustainability.

Just look at something like the We Are One Arrival, 500 mile radius for all parts was the goal. Then the new Ibis Exie with a frame built in the US with a huge focus on the factory being close to Ibis headquarters. Now that it's not so cheap to operate overseas, the benefits of manufacturing closer to home are starting to swing the pendulum.
 

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It's still FAR from a DTC bike or DTC price, but you've been arguing there's no difference in bikes other than cost since then.

So yea, it's still weird. But there's a lot of overhead that's missed with DTC, which is really one of the biggest reasons they're cheaper.
Spot, though DTC, has always been on the high end.
 

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Yes I have researched it. It's called exploitative practices and pricing. It's time for authorities to intervene with this exploitative behavior.



Yea I hope they do something, I think it's ridiculous to be charged because a ship now sits for weeks instead of days to unload.
It's insane to think that shipping costs needs to absorb the cost of shipping empty containers back to Asia.
Everyone should just do **** for free.
 

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OK. Comparing the YT to the Ibis in my original post...What detail would set the Ibis apart making it worth $2300 more?

  1. Both are full carbon suspension frames but just different linkage designs.
  2. Both have the same drive train offering.
  3. Both have the same suspension offering.
  4. The YT has a carbon wheelset. The Ibis has an aluminum wheelset.
  5. YT is 5 year warranty. Ibis is 7 year warranty.
I really don't see anything in the list that jumps out and would want to make me pay $2300 more for a comparable bike.
It's worth $2,300 more because some people are willing to pay $2,300 more. There's really not anything more to it than that. The cost of making something has almost nothing to do with what its price is. If you don't like Ibis's prices, then don't buy one.

Hate to break it to you, people selling used bikes right now are not taking a hit...
This. Bought my last bike second hand. $4,000 MSRP, paid $2,300 for it a year old and hardly used. Rode the hell out of it for 3 years and just sold it for $2,600. Took the sting out of the price on my new overpriced Pivot, that's for sure.
 

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Yes I have researched it. It's called exploitative practices and pricing. It's time for authorities to intervene with this exploitative behavior.
LOL. What are they going to do? Subsidize foreign companies shipping stuff to the U.S., thus undercutting U.S. manufacturers and costing us jobs? Maybe they can set a maximum shipping price so none of the ships transport anything to the U.S. because they can make more money shipping to other countries. That would sure stick it to those evil exploiters. Then there is the high tech approach: We pay Elon Musk to invent teleportation or to fire stuff across the oceans in rockets.
 

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I don't think it is exploitative or price gouging. It is supply/demand in some times of unreal supply crunches. I paid a bit over $8K for the Ripley I just bought. It was a bit painful but I am not sure it would have been much less two years ago. Maybe $500-$1,000? 4 years ago, my XT Yeti was $6,500. Definitely pricey but not shockingly so to me, since I have seen prices on carbon bikes creeping up for years. Now I should sell my Yeti and my SC gravel bike to get a Revel Rascal or a Ripmo, and get another shock to my system.
 
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