Rather than just bump the original thread I started when my left hand went dead after a week of riding (extreme newbie), I thought I would start a new discussion and get some feedback on the results of getting a bike fit. (If you're interested in the previous discussion as backg, it's located here:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=689218&referrerid=525174
I'm a fairly new resident of Albuquerque, NM and chose to get a bike fit session at Sport Systems, a big chain store here. SS has a big ski/snowboard clientele, but the entire lower floor is dedicated to bicycling. They are also a local dealer for Specialized, Kona, Yeti, Santa Cruz, Felt and other bikes. They have a "fitting" room and a full bike repair shop also.
They have someone there who is trained in the "BG Fit" system, which I understand to be a brand owned/operated by Specialized. In my previous thread someone recommended Retul, but the nearest shop offering that system is in Santa Fe and it was a bit pricey for me at several hundred $$. At my level of experience, I'm pretty certain that a full-motion video, etc. would probably be overkill and just confirm that I need a lot of work on basic techniques.
My main objectives for this exercise were to:
1. Rule out the possibility that the bike I purchased (2008 Giant Reign 1--Large frame), was completely wrong for me--worst-case scenario.
2. Get a good baseline for seat height, seat position and handlebar position.
3. Get some good advice and get the bike set up to minimize any re-occurrence of the "dead hand" syndrome, which started the whole process.
Sport Systems/Specialized/BG offers 3 levels of fittings:
Basic for ~ $40.
Medium for $70 (this is the one I chose)
Advanced for ~ $150.00 (includes fitness assessment, range of motion tests, and more).
I chose the mid-level fitting and will describe my experience here. It included a 1 1/2 hour session (maybe a little longer) with an experienced fitter who had just finished the last steps in the "complete" BG training certification. I believe that he has been doing fittings for some years, but just recently finished up the "highest level" (whatever that means) of the official BG training, for which he flew to San Jose, CA last week. He's also an long-time rider, currently does some road-racing and recently "retired" from competing in triathlons.
Side note: all the LBS shops I spoke with and visited during my pre-purchase test riding, offered bike fits, either included in the purchase, had I decided to buy a brand-new bike, or a paid fit--generally in the $50-60 price range. Sport Systems was the only one I found who had a formal program, although there may be others. This isn't any comment on the quality of the other shops' offerings, but lacking any real personal recommendations, I thought the Specialized/BG was a good bet.
As to the fit itself: I arrived and Dave got my bike set up on the test stand after I reinstalled the wheels. (Another side note, and probably the subject of another thread here in the Beginners' Corner. My daily driver is a Porsche 944 in order to get it into the rear hatch area I have to take BOTH wheels off. This is a real PITA, but I don't know if there is bike rack that I can easily fit on that car. As I said, probably subject for another thread.)
I also brought along the cheap pair of SPD shoes (Forte from Performance Bike) and cleats (Shimano "multi-release) that I purchased, but hadn't set up or used before. Dave helped me install the cleats and the fitting was was done with me clipped in. (I've been a bit leery of trying to ride clipped in, but after this original experience, I think I can manage it with a little more practice.)
After the bike was strapped into the fitting station and checked for level, the next thing that he did was check the seat for level. He pointed out the fact that it was, in fact, tilted slightly backwards and started by moving it to a level position.
I climbed on the bike and pedaled a bit while Dave did some preliminary measurements. He then told me that first thing he noticed was that the seat seemed to be too narrow for me. So, off the bike and onto a bench with some kind of compressible gel pad in order to get an accurate measurement of the distance from one "sit bone" to the other. The saddle on the bike was a WTB and the measurements confirmed that it was too narrow for me. This brought up the question of whether I needed to either:
1. Buy a new saddle then and there
2. Cut the test short and come back when I had a new saddle
3. Do the rest of the fitting with a too-narrow saddle. (Not really a choice, IMHO.)
This kind of rubbed me the wrong way, as I didn't really want to have to make a decision on a new saddle without doing any research, and also didn't want to pay full-retail for something that might not be the best thing for me. But the "finish the test with the existing saddle" made no sense at all, so I decided to trust Dave and get a new, wider saddle there and finish up the fit. (He wasn't high-pressure at all and was perfectly willing to let me go and find the saddle of my choice and return later if I wished, but I figured that it was worth it to just pop for the new seat.) I ended up with a wider (155 mm) Specialized seat for $55.00. To be perfectly honest, I didn't feel a dramatic difference with the new seat, at least not right away. But the measurements that I saw made it pretty clear that the old seat was really not hitting my sit-bones where it should have.
We installed the new seat, leveled it again then worked on the seat height. Dave had me pedal some more--both clipped in and then with my left foot out of the clips and moved forward on the pedal surface. Lots of checks with a level, which I should have asked more about, but I surmise that he was getting the seat's fore-and-aft position set up so that my shins/knees were in proper alignment with the crank.
Dave mentioned that the two main areas fitting were the seat and then the handlebar position and that they were relatively independent of one another. I took this to mean that the seat position kind of controls the leg/knee position when pedaling and that has to be a certain way, period. Then you deal with the handlebars.
Before we moved on to the handlebar questions, he suggested that I should try a bit of DOWNWARD tilt on the seat also. I think the reasoning on this (although I may have misunderstood and I don't want to cast any aspersions on his fitting knowledge or technique due to my mis-duplicating what he said) was to facilitate the proper posture and movement when leaning forward. If you tilt it too low you'll get a feeling of "slipping" forward, but just before that is fine.
Throughout all of this time we had been discussing the fact that the KEY problem I was having was just a significant lack of core strength along with some fairly bad "bike posture" in general. This lack of core fitness makes it difficult to feel comfortable when leaning forward to reach the bars. The tendency is to kind of "slump" forward and then support my weight on the handlebars. He emphasized, and I agreed, that I need to work on core strength and posture, which was pretty much a foregone conclusion anyway.
One good tip he had was to imagine a kind of pivot point in the lower back/pelvis and all forward leaning should be done from that "hinge" point--which of course requires some solid core strength, and better posture which will take some time to develop.
We then moved on to the handlebar problem. The bars I have seem to be wide enough, and they are set level with the seat, which, according to Dave is the generally accepted "normal" position (without getting into the various seat heights for different maneuvers--which is a bit down the road in my case, I think!).
Dave suggested that for the time being a relatively simple and cost-effective way to address the issue of avoiding the "lean on the bars with cocked wrists" problem, was to install an extension piece in the stem. Kind of a crutch to make riding more fun and easy until I improve in the strength/posture areas. He said that it's obviously not ideal and it would introduce some flakiness into the steering mechanism (think of "ape hanger" bars on a motorcycle/bicycle to extend the analogy to an absurd degree), but that it did offer the possibility of riding in a more upright position for now and moving it down gradually (I think there's about 1 1/2-2" of adjustment available) as I get stronger. We didn't set it to full-extension even now. At some point I can just uninstall it and go back to the original stem position. This made sense to me, so I bought (yep... ;-) ) another little piece from Specialized for about $25. We installed that, and when I got back on the bike the difference was pretty dramatic. I still had to lean forward for the bars, but not nearly as much as before and it felt MUCH easier to lean (from the pelvis, of course!) and grab the handlebars, WITHOUT putting weight on my hands and wrists. I did a few stand-ups in the pedals and tried out my version of the "attack position" (ha, ha) and it was all much easier.
Downside is that the extension looks pretty dorky, but in the long run I'm thinking and hoping that it will help get me started, have more fun and avoid any further wrist problems which I get in better biking shape.
With the major stuff out of the way, we BS'd for awhile about core training (maybe some classes at the local Y) and flexibility; what its like to actually do a triathlon, etc., etc.
So that's what happened. The only thing I felt uncomfortable about was the need to purchase a seat on the spot, but given the choices, I'm OK with my decision to just get the seat and stem extension. Total cost: $162.59 including the seat, extension, fitting and tax.
I felt pretty good about the overall experience and I would be very surprised if Dave fed me a bunch of misinformation, but hey, if that's the case I'm sure I'll hear about here.
Now I'm looking forward to a group ride aimed at beginners-to-intermediate trail riders tomorrow. I may even try wearing my cleated shoes!
Open to any feedback/comments here. And I hope that this might help other beginners who may be considering a bike fitting and what to expect.
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=689218&referrerid=525174
I'm a fairly new resident of Albuquerque, NM and chose to get a bike fit session at Sport Systems, a big chain store here. SS has a big ski/snowboard clientele, but the entire lower floor is dedicated to bicycling. They are also a local dealer for Specialized, Kona, Yeti, Santa Cruz, Felt and other bikes. They have a "fitting" room and a full bike repair shop also.
They have someone there who is trained in the "BG Fit" system, which I understand to be a brand owned/operated by Specialized. In my previous thread someone recommended Retul, but the nearest shop offering that system is in Santa Fe and it was a bit pricey for me at several hundred $$. At my level of experience, I'm pretty certain that a full-motion video, etc. would probably be overkill and just confirm that I need a lot of work on basic techniques.
My main objectives for this exercise were to:
1. Rule out the possibility that the bike I purchased (2008 Giant Reign 1--Large frame), was completely wrong for me--worst-case scenario.
2. Get a good baseline for seat height, seat position and handlebar position.
3. Get some good advice and get the bike set up to minimize any re-occurrence of the "dead hand" syndrome, which started the whole process.
Sport Systems/Specialized/BG offers 3 levels of fittings:
Basic for ~ $40.
Medium for $70 (this is the one I chose)
Advanced for ~ $150.00 (includes fitness assessment, range of motion tests, and more).
I chose the mid-level fitting and will describe my experience here. It included a 1 1/2 hour session (maybe a little longer) with an experienced fitter who had just finished the last steps in the "complete" BG training certification. I believe that he has been doing fittings for some years, but just recently finished up the "highest level" (whatever that means) of the official BG training, for which he flew to San Jose, CA last week. He's also an long-time rider, currently does some road-racing and recently "retired" from competing in triathlons.
Side note: all the LBS shops I spoke with and visited during my pre-purchase test riding, offered bike fits, either included in the purchase, had I decided to buy a brand-new bike, or a paid fit--generally in the $50-60 price range. Sport Systems was the only one I found who had a formal program, although there may be others. This isn't any comment on the quality of the other shops' offerings, but lacking any real personal recommendations, I thought the Specialized/BG was a good bet.
As to the fit itself: I arrived and Dave got my bike set up on the test stand after I reinstalled the wheels. (Another side note, and probably the subject of another thread here in the Beginners' Corner. My daily driver is a Porsche 944 in order to get it into the rear hatch area I have to take BOTH wheels off. This is a real PITA, but I don't know if there is bike rack that I can easily fit on that car. As I said, probably subject for another thread.)
I also brought along the cheap pair of SPD shoes (Forte from Performance Bike) and cleats (Shimano "multi-release) that I purchased, but hadn't set up or used before. Dave helped me install the cleats and the fitting was was done with me clipped in. (I've been a bit leery of trying to ride clipped in, but after this original experience, I think I can manage it with a little more practice.)
After the bike was strapped into the fitting station and checked for level, the next thing that he did was check the seat for level. He pointed out the fact that it was, in fact, tilted slightly backwards and started by moving it to a level position.
I climbed on the bike and pedaled a bit while Dave did some preliminary measurements. He then told me that first thing he noticed was that the seat seemed to be too narrow for me. So, off the bike and onto a bench with some kind of compressible gel pad in order to get an accurate measurement of the distance from one "sit bone" to the other. The saddle on the bike was a WTB and the measurements confirmed that it was too narrow for me. This brought up the question of whether I needed to either:
1. Buy a new saddle then and there
2. Cut the test short and come back when I had a new saddle
3. Do the rest of the fitting with a too-narrow saddle. (Not really a choice, IMHO.)
This kind of rubbed me the wrong way, as I didn't really want to have to make a decision on a new saddle without doing any research, and also didn't want to pay full-retail for something that might not be the best thing for me. But the "finish the test with the existing saddle" made no sense at all, so I decided to trust Dave and get a new, wider saddle there and finish up the fit. (He wasn't high-pressure at all and was perfectly willing to let me go and find the saddle of my choice and return later if I wished, but I figured that it was worth it to just pop for the new seat.) I ended up with a wider (155 mm) Specialized seat for $55.00. To be perfectly honest, I didn't feel a dramatic difference with the new seat, at least not right away. But the measurements that I saw made it pretty clear that the old seat was really not hitting my sit-bones where it should have.
We installed the new seat, leveled it again then worked on the seat height. Dave had me pedal some more--both clipped in and then with my left foot out of the clips and moved forward on the pedal surface. Lots of checks with a level, which I should have asked more about, but I surmise that he was getting the seat's fore-and-aft position set up so that my shins/knees were in proper alignment with the crank.
Dave mentioned that the two main areas fitting were the seat and then the handlebar position and that they were relatively independent of one another. I took this to mean that the seat position kind of controls the leg/knee position when pedaling and that has to be a certain way, period. Then you deal with the handlebars.
Before we moved on to the handlebar questions, he suggested that I should try a bit of DOWNWARD tilt on the seat also. I think the reasoning on this (although I may have misunderstood and I don't want to cast any aspersions on his fitting knowledge or technique due to my mis-duplicating what he said) was to facilitate the proper posture and movement when leaning forward. If you tilt it too low you'll get a feeling of "slipping" forward, but just before that is fine.
Throughout all of this time we had been discussing the fact that the KEY problem I was having was just a significant lack of core strength along with some fairly bad "bike posture" in general. This lack of core fitness makes it difficult to feel comfortable when leaning forward to reach the bars. The tendency is to kind of "slump" forward and then support my weight on the handlebars. He emphasized, and I agreed, that I need to work on core strength and posture, which was pretty much a foregone conclusion anyway.
One good tip he had was to imagine a kind of pivot point in the lower back/pelvis and all forward leaning should be done from that "hinge" point--which of course requires some solid core strength, and better posture which will take some time to develop.
We then moved on to the handlebar problem. The bars I have seem to be wide enough, and they are set level with the seat, which, according to Dave is the generally accepted "normal" position (without getting into the various seat heights for different maneuvers--which is a bit down the road in my case, I think!).
Dave suggested that for the time being a relatively simple and cost-effective way to address the issue of avoiding the "lean on the bars with cocked wrists" problem, was to install an extension piece in the stem. Kind of a crutch to make riding more fun and easy until I improve in the strength/posture areas. He said that it's obviously not ideal and it would introduce some flakiness into the steering mechanism (think of "ape hanger" bars on a motorcycle/bicycle to extend the analogy to an absurd degree), but that it did offer the possibility of riding in a more upright position for now and moving it down gradually (I think there's about 1 1/2-2" of adjustment available) as I get stronger. We didn't set it to full-extension even now. At some point I can just uninstall it and go back to the original stem position. This made sense to me, so I bought (yep... ;-) ) another little piece from Specialized for about $25. We installed that, and when I got back on the bike the difference was pretty dramatic. I still had to lean forward for the bars, but not nearly as much as before and it felt MUCH easier to lean (from the pelvis, of course!) and grab the handlebars, WITHOUT putting weight on my hands and wrists. I did a few stand-ups in the pedals and tried out my version of the "attack position" (ha, ha) and it was all much easier.
Downside is that the extension looks pretty dorky, but in the long run I'm thinking and hoping that it will help get me started, have more fun and avoid any further wrist problems which I get in better biking shape.
With the major stuff out of the way, we BS'd for awhile about core training (maybe some classes at the local Y) and flexibility; what its like to actually do a triathlon, etc., etc.
So that's what happened. The only thing I felt uncomfortable about was the need to purchase a seat on the spot, but given the choices, I'm OK with my decision to just get the seat and stem extension. Total cost: $162.59 including the seat, extension, fitting and tax.
I felt pretty good about the overall experience and I would be very surprised if Dave fed me a bunch of misinformation, but hey, if that's the case I'm sure I'll hear about here.
Now I'm looking forward to a group ride aimed at beginners-to-intermediate trail riders tomorrow. I may even try wearing my cleated shoes!
Open to any feedback/comments here. And I hope that this might help other beginners who may be considering a bike fitting and what to expect.