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What's your recommendation for a great Ti full suspension frame? I like the Seven Duo and the Titus Ti Racer X 100. I like the look and the quality of the Seven more, but will take other suggestions. Thanks
steviscott said:What's your recommendation for a great Ti full suspension frame? I like the Seven Duo and the Titus Ti Racer X 100. I like the look and the quality of the Seven more, but will take other suggestions. Thanks
I'll mostly agree with Gonzo on this one Ti is a nice material for a road bike or hardtail but doesn't make much sense for full suspension. The only reason Titus does them is because of the full custom geometry. If the stock Racer-X works for you, save the $500 difference for the rest of your build or buy a ticket to Moab or something. I think the only reason Seven, IF and Litespeed starting doing FS is to help make up for their lagging Ti hardtail mtb sales. I bet they are selling VERY few these days. Or if you want to be completely excessive, Titus offers the Racer-X with Ti/Carbon Exogrid.steviscott said:What's your recommendation for a great Ti full suspension frame? I like the Seven Duo and the Titus Ti Racer X 100. I like the look and the quality of the Seven more, but will take other suggestions. Thanks
I asked about the best Ti frames. I don't need someone to tell me that Ti is for rich yuppie buyers and it's a dumb idea. If you don't have something constuctive to add, don't chime in.gonzostrike said:Ti FS is a dumb idea, any builder who works with all 3 tube types (Al, Ti, CrMo) will tell you that the only reason to use Ti in an FS design is to court rich yuppie buyers.
but if that's what floats YOUR boat...![]()
I don't think I was that out of line. I asked a question and someone basically tells me I'm a rich yuppie. And if you say people can post what they want, then I am posting what I want to say. I've had several helpful replies to my question, I just didn't think that post was very nice.CDMC said:Hey Steveiscott,
It's been nice having you here, but do us a favor and take a hike. First, this is a public forum, so people can post as they want. Second, you show up as a question and when you don't like the answer tell people to shut up. Not very cool behavior for someone who's entire posting history is asking about a subject that could be easily learned through clicking on the search button and taking a few minutes.
Bottom line is you are wasting your money on a TI FS bike. Even Titus will tell you, skip a TI Racer X unless you have a fit problem with the aluminium version and need custom geometry.
Ti as frame material has very compliant characteristics, which is why it's used on high-end road bikes and HT's. The problem with Ti + FS is that shocks are supposed to be doing the suspending, not the entire frame superstructure. For FS frames, stiffer materials such as steel or aluminum actually isolate lateral flex much better. Also factor in Ti-seizing, and a Ti FS frame does become a maintenance nightmare.highroller said:This guy seems to like the Moots Smoothie. Although, if I were trying to sell a $6700 bike, I'd say good things about it too.
http://www.dreambike.com/smoothie.htm
much as I love my ti hardtails and wouldn't settle for anything else, I agree that ti f/s is a waste of money.gonzostrike said:Ti FS is a dumb idea, any builder who works with all 3 tube types (Al, Ti, CrMo) will tell you that the only reason to use Ti in an FS design is to court rich yuppie buyers.
but if that's what floats YOUR boat...![]()
I see that you've already made the same points that I just posted. I guess great minds think alike.@dam said:Actually, you asked about the best Ti SUSPENSION frames. Some of the qualities that make Ti so nice for a hardtail (flexible for a nice ride) make it less suitable for an FS bike. The way I understand it, with a suspension bike, everything must stay in careful alignment with everything else. You want the frame as stiff is possible, which is fine because you don't have to worry about selecting a material that'll give you a nice ride. Aluminum tends to be the best material for this, as you can have big, stiff tubes that are lighter than other materials. This is why you seldom see Ti or Steel suspension bikes. This is also why gonzo was saying the idea of a Ti FS bike was more about marketing to rich folks than about realistic performance. Just because it is more expensive doesn't always mean it is better.
I tend to think that people who make blanket assumptions about titanium as a frame material without taking into consideration how the end-product might be engineered/built either: 1) have some sort of insecurity about themself, 2) have some sort of hidden agenda, or 3) are just plain ignorant. Of course, your mileage may vary.steviscott said:What's your recommendation for a great Ti full suspension frame? I like the Seven Duo and the Titus Ti Racer X 100. I like the look and the quality of the Seven more, but will take other suggestions. Thanks
Thanks for the post and the link to the older thread. I think I'm looking for a light trail bike that can be at raceable weight (25-26 lbs). for endurance events (12-24 hr races). I'm not fit enough to be super competitive, I just take joy in finishing. I like the beauty of a full titanium bike and I know they can be built well. I'm leaning more towards the Seven because of the quality of the frames I've seen from them. Do you feel that your Racer X or your Duo rides nicer? which one makes you feel the best riding? Thanks again Scott.terminaut said:I tend to think that people who make blanket assumptions about titanium as a frame material without taking into consideration how the end-product might be engineered/built either: 1) have some sort of insecurity about themself, 2) have some sort of hidden agenda, or 3) are just plain ignorant. Of course, your mileage may vary.
Anyways, I've got a few titanium FS bikes - including an older ti Racer-X as well as a Duo (along with a Willits and a Quasimoto and a Bow-Ti). Both of the bikes you're interested in can be built as beefy and/or stiff as you want, and both ride very nicely although the Duo will be more finicky to properly tune for your weight and riding style. Once dialed-in though, it's phenomenal.
I'd say go for the Duo if you're a smooth rider (ie. ride light / flow) and go for the Racer-X if not so much.... If you're climbing rough stuff, heavy rotational torque on the cranks will cause the Duo's suspension to stiffen (whether you're seated or standing) so it will climb more like a hardtail whereas the Racer-X will be more active and get better traction. Otherwise, they're pretty even in performance IMHO.
If it were me, I'd get both! How's that for helpful...
I posted a whole thread on the Seven Duo last year:
https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=133
and here are a few pics of me posing on my yuppy ti full-sussies. Yeah - I know these are all pics of drops (where you might want to have some suspension) but the bikes also handle riding on the ground real well also.
Seven Duo
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Titus Ti Racer-X
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Titus Ti Quasi
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I think the ti front triangle on my Quasi is stiffer/stronger than my RFX's!
Guess what? Titanium can be just as enjoyable to ride as any other material! You can quote me on that.
DISCLAIMER: Yes - just like bikes built with any other material, there are shoddy examples of titanium bikes/parts out there. Beware of those...
I'd recommend you go with the Duo for how you're looking to use the bike. Another option that you might not have thought of is a 29"-er version of the Racer-X. I'd think that'd be a good platform to mount a 24-hour campaign on...steviscott said:Thanks for the post and the link to the older thread. I think I'm looking for a light trail bike that can be at raceable weight (25-26 lbs). for endurance events (12-24 hr races). I'm not fit enough to be super competitive, I just take joy in finishing. I like the beauty of a full titanium bike and I know they can be built well. I'm leaning more towards the Seven because of the quality of the frames I've seen from them. Do you feel that your Racer X or your Duo rides nicer? which one makes you feel the best riding? Thanks again Scott.