[steviscott]

What's your recommendation for a great Ti full suspension frame? I like the Seven Duo and the Titus Ti Racer X 100. I like the look and the quality of the Seven more, but will take other suggestions. Thanks

 

[CJH]

Indy Fab..

Go to the thread pasted below and scroll down to the picture of the prototype from Independent Fabrications. In another thread it was said to have a Ti front triangle.

It's a DW link design so probably more of a plush, active design compared to the snappy/racy Titus.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=224

What's your recommendation for a great Ti full suspension frame? I like the Seven Duo and the Titus Ti Racer X 100. I like the look and the quality of the Seven more, but will take other suggestions. Thanks

 

[gonzostrike]

Ti FS is a dumb idea, any builder who works with all 3 tube types (Al, Ti, CrMo) will tell you that the only reason to use Ti in an FS design is to court rich yuppie buyers.

but if that's what floats YOUR boat...

 

[Homebrew]

What's your recommendation for a great Ti full suspension frame? I like the Seven Duo and the Titus Ti Racer X 100. I like the look and the quality of the Seven more, but will take other suggestions. Thanks

I'll mostly agree with Gonzo on this one Ti is a nice material for a road bike or hardtail but doesn't make much sense for full suspension. The only reason Titus does them is because of the full custom geometry. If the stock Racer-X works for you, save the $500 difference for the rest of your build or buy a ticket to Moab or something. I think the only reason Seven, IF and Litespeed starting doing FS is to help make up for their lagging Ti hardtail mtb sales. I bet they are selling VERY few these days. Or if you want to be completely excessive, Titus offers the Racer-X with Ti/Carbon Exogrid.

Instead limiting your choices to one specialty material, why don't you figure out what kind of bike you want and see what's out there that fits your needs. How much travel, handling preference, Horst, single pivot, VPP, etc.

 

[highroller]

This guy seems to like the Moots Smoothie. Although, if I were trying to sell a $6700 bike, I'd say good things about it too.
http://www.dreambike.com/smoothie.htm

 

[steviscott]

I don't want to make this a which material is better thread

Ti FS is a dumb idea, any builder who works with all 3 tube types (Al, Ti, CrMo) will tell you that the only reason to use Ti in an FS design is to court rich yuppie buyers.

but if that's what floats YOUR boat...

I asked about the best Ti frames. I don't need someone to tell me that Ti is for rich yuppie buyers and it's a dumb idea. If you don't have something constuctive to add, don't chime in.

 

[Cary]

Hey Steveiscott,

It's been nice having you here, but do us a favor and take a hike. First, this is a public forum, so people can post as they want. Second, you show up as a question and when you don't like the answer tell people to shut up. Not very cool behavior for someone who's entire posting history is asking about a subject that could be easily learned through clicking on the search button and taking a few minutes.

Bottom line is you are wasting your money on a TI FS bike. Even Titus will tell you, skip a TI Racer X unless you have a fit problem with the aluminium version and need custom geometry.

 

[steviscott]

Resonding to your posting

Hey Steveiscott,

It's been nice having you here, but do us a favor and take a hike. First, this is a public forum, so people can post as they want. Second, you show up as a question and when you don't like the answer tell people to shut up. Not very cool behavior for someone who's entire posting history is asking about a subject that could be easily learned through clicking on the search button and taking a few minutes.

Bottom line is you are wasting your money on a TI FS bike. Even Titus will tell you, skip a TI Racer X unless you have a fit problem with the aluminium version and need custom geometry.

I don't think I was that out of line. I asked a question and someone basically tells me I'm a rich yuppie. And if you say people can post what they want, then I am posting what I want to say. I've had several helpful replies to my question, I just didn't think that post was very nice.

 

[006_007]

Somebody needs a group hug......

 

[J.S.]

(*deleted* duplicate post)

 

[J.S.]

This guy seems to like the Moots Smoothie. Although, if I were trying to sell a $6700 bike, I'd say good things about it too.
http://www.dreambike.com/smoothie.htm

Ti as frame material has very compliant characteristics, which is why it's used on high-end road bikes and HT's. The problem with Ti + FS is that shocks are supposed to be doing the suspending, not the entire frame superstructure. For FS frames, stiffer materials such as steel or aluminum actually isolate lateral flex much better. Also factor in Ti-seizing, and a Ti FS frame does become a maintenance nightmare.

A Ti-soft tail would work well, but longer travel FS designs (like the Moots Mootaineer) had known creaking issues. This is probably why Titus implemented Exogrid on their RX custom Ti frames.

 

[@dam]

Actually, you asked about the best Ti SUSPENSION frames. Some of the qualities that make Ti so nice for a hardtail (flexible for a nice ride) make it less suitable for an FS bike. The way I understand it, with a suspension bike, everything must stay in careful alignment with everything else. You want the frame as stiff is possible, which is fine because you don't have to worry about selecting a material that'll give you a nice ride. Aluminum tends to be the best material for this, as you can have big, stiff tubes that are lighter than other materials. This is why you seldom see Ti or Steel suspension bikes. This is also why gonzo was saying the idea of a Ti FS bike was more about marketing to rich folks than about realistic performance. Just because it is more expensive doesn't always mean it is better.

 

[neville]

Ti Suspension

I have had my Seven Duo for about 16 months and have nothing but good things to say about it. Climbs great and decends solidly.
I have owned or ridden quiet alot of F/S bikes(XC and freeride) and for me nothing else makes me want to change bikes YET.
But this could all change when the IF FS comes out.
Also since reading about Mikesee's Mooto X, that is also a bike I would love to try.
Ti FS the Seven Duo gets my vote, but my favourite bike is my SS.
Good luck with your choice and what the heck, spend your money on what YOU want.

 

[bulC]

I agree

Ti FS is a dumb idea, any builder who works with all 3 tube types (Al, Ti, CrMo) will tell you that the only reason to use Ti in an FS design is to court rich yuppie buyers.

but if that's what floats YOUR boat...

much as I love my ti hardtails and wouldn't settle for anything else, I agree that ti f/s is a waste of money.
no weight advantage
material is way more expensive
the many welds required just add to the expense
the plush compliant ride of a good ti hardtail is just what you DON't want in a full suspension bike, which is already hard-pressed not to flex unduly due to all the pivot points. What you want in a f/s frame is godawful rigid tubing, which is why the good ones use hugely fat tube diameters.

 

[bulC]

I should have read down further before posting

Actually, you asked about the best Ti SUSPENSION frames. Some of the qualities that make Ti so nice for a hardtail (flexible for a nice ride) make it less suitable for an FS bike. The way I understand it, with a suspension bike, everything must stay in careful alignment with everything else. You want the frame as stiff is possible, which is fine because you don't have to worry about selecting a material that'll give you a nice ride. Aluminum tends to be the best material for this, as you can have big, stiff tubes that are lighter than other materials. This is why you seldom see Ti or Steel suspension bikes. This is also why gonzo was saying the idea of a Ti FS bike was more about marketing to rich folks than about realistic performance. Just because it is more expensive doesn't always mean it is better.

I see that you've already made the same points that I just posted. I guess great minds think alike.

 

[neville]

Flex

I,m 6'2" 265lbs ex rugby playing, weight lifting, strong type and there is no flex problems with the Duo. the bike weighs 25lbs and is solid as a rock. Seven selects the tubes for the rider of the bike, works great.
And I am sure IF will do an equally good job of tube selection.

 

[terminaut]

Beware the haters...

What's your recommendation for a great Ti full suspension frame? I like the Seven Duo and the Titus Ti Racer X 100. I like the look and the quality of the Seven more, but will take other suggestions. Thanks

I tend to think that people who make blanket assumptions about titanium as a frame material without taking into consideration how the end-product might be engineered/built either: 1) have some sort of insecurity about themself, 2) have some sort of hidden agenda, or 3) are just plain ignorant. Of course, your mileage may vary.

Anyways, I've got a few titanium FS bikes - including an older ti Racer-X as well as a Duo (along with a Willits and a Quasimoto and a Bow-Ti). Both of the bikes you're interested in can be built as beefy and/or stiff as you want, and both ride very nicely although the Duo will be more finicky to properly tune for your weight and riding style. Once dialed-in though, it's phenomenal.

I'd say go for the Duo if you're a smooth rider (ie. ride light / flow) and go for the Racer-X if not so much.... If you're climbing rough stuff, heavy rotational torque on the cranks will cause the Duo's suspension to stiffen (whether you're seated or standing) so it will climb more like a hardtail whereas the Racer-X will be more active and get better traction. Otherwise, they're pretty even in performance IMHO.

If it were me, I'd get both! How's that for helpful...

I posted a whole thread on the Seven Duo last year:

https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=133

and here are a few pics of me posing on my yuppy ti full-sussies. Yeah - I know these are all pics of drops (where you might want to have some suspension) but the bikes also handle riding on the ground real well also.

Seven Duo

Titus Ti Racer-X

Titus Ti Quasi

I think the ti front triangle on my Quasi is stiffer/stronger than my RFX's!

​

Guess what? Titanium can be just as enjoyable to ride as any other material! You can quote me on that.


DISCLAIMER: Yes - just like bikes built with any other material, there are shoddy examples of titanium bikes/parts out there. Beware of those...

 

[steviscott]

But if you had to give up one... which one?

I tend to think that people who make blanket assumptions about titanium as a frame material without taking into consideration how the end-product might be engineered/built either: 1) have some sort of insecurity about themself, 2) have some sort of hidden agenda, or 3) are just plain ignorant. Of course, your mileage may vary.

Anyways, I've got a few titanium FS bikes - including an older ti Racer-X as well as a Duo (along with a Willits and a Quasimoto and a Bow-Ti). Both of the bikes you're interested in can be built as beefy and/or stiff as you want, and both ride very nicely although the Duo will be more finicky to properly tune for your weight and riding style. Once dialed-in though, it's phenomenal.

I'd say go for the Duo if you're a smooth rider (ie. ride light / flow) and go for the Racer-X if not so much.... If you're climbing rough stuff, heavy rotational torque on the cranks will cause the Duo's suspension to stiffen (whether you're seated or standing) so it will climb more like a hardtail whereas the Racer-X will be more active and get better traction. Otherwise, they're pretty even in performance IMHO.

If it were me, I'd get both! How's that for helpful...

I posted a whole thread on the Seven Duo last year:

https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=133

and here are a few pics of me posing on my yuppy ti full-sussies. Yeah - I know these are all pics of drops (where you might want to have some suspension) but the bikes also handle riding on the ground real well also.

Seven Duo

Titus Ti Racer-X

Titus Ti Quasi

I think the ti front triangle on my Quasi is stiffer/stronger than my RFX's!

​

Guess what? Titanium can be just as enjoyable to ride as any other material! You can quote me on that.


DISCLAIMER: Yes - just like bikes built with any other material, there are shoddy examples of titanium bikes/parts out there. Beware of those...

Thanks for the post and the link to the older thread. I think I'm looking for a light trail bike that can be at raceable weight (25-26 lbs). for endurance events (12-24 hr races). I'm not fit enough to be super competitive, I just take joy in finishing. I like the beauty of a full titanium bike and I know they can be built well. I'm leaning more towards the Seven because of the quality of the frames I've seen from them. Do you feel that your Racer X or your Duo rides nicer? which one makes you feel the best riding? Thanks again Scott.

 

[terminaut]

For that sort of riding...

Thanks for the post and the link to the older thread. I think I'm looking for a light trail bike that can be at raceable weight (25-26 lbs). for endurance events (12-24 hr races). I'm not fit enough to be super competitive, I just take joy in finishing. I like the beauty of a full titanium bike and I know they can be built well. I'm leaning more towards the Seven because of the quality of the frames I've seen from them. Do you feel that your Racer X or your Duo rides nicer? which one makes you feel the best riding? Thanks again Scott.

I'd recommend you go with the Duo for how you're looking to use the bike. Another option that you might not have thought of is a 29"-er version of the Racer-X. I'd think that'd be a good platform to mount a 24-hour campaign on...