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Discussion Starter #81
OP doesn't want winter. Santa Fe elevation is 7,199 ft.
I wouldn't want a long dreary winter. So I wouldn't want to move back to New England or to the midwest or PNW. Just my personal preference on climate as I enjoy warm weather and sunny days. But having some snow every so often if it tends to melt off wouldn't be that bad, could actually be a plus, especially if you can ride in the winter.
 

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I have moved geographically in the US 8 times. A couple places I chose. A few more moves within the same area.
Our last move is the best and final. Why? Our list of desireable stuff got pretty solid.
Anywhere you chose will have negatives. Some apparent right away, others creep in. Some of the negatives go away.
The positives have never really gone away.
 

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Yeah, somewhat. I'm not entirely sure what the city or county could realistically do in most cases, though. None of it is helped by the absolutely stupid costs of flat, easily developed land.
Zoning for density in those flat, buildable areas would help. Requiring through streets would help traffic too, currently everything is a dead end road, so you're forced onto roads that aren't designed for the traffic. A lot of the damage has already been done though, I tend to agree with that. It'll be tough to turn it around.

I think its more about making connections with the right people. What do you do to facilitate relationships with similar type of people? My wife and I have 2 toddlers, we're in our 30's, and we have a tremendous community of similar people around us. We're on the east side of Asheville it has a much more authentic feeling of living compared to the clogged suburbia area found south of asheville.
You're not wrong, my point is just that is a bit more difficult in Asheville compared to other places I've lived. If the OP is working from home during a pandemic, its going to be even trickier.

Anyways...do you and Harold want to be friends? :geek:

Arlington lies just across the Potomac River from the U.S. Capitol and is a preferred place among government workers and the military to raise a family. It also ranks as one of the best cities in the U.S. for millennials, recent college graduates, and dogs.
Arlington is nice, but it is breathtakingly expensive and the traffic is bad. My brother was stationed there for a few years, they got caught in traffic on the way to the hospital when his wife went into labor and they ended up delivering the baby on the shoulder of I-95 in a traffic jam.

Also, how're the trails in NoVa?
 

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New Mexico is probably my favorite state. I absolutely love it and plan to hopefully make it my retirement home base one day... that said, when my wife and I were deciding where to move it got kicked off the list pretty fast. Most cities in the US are spotty and have their good and bad sides. Albuquerque just has way too many problems for my liking though, and even in the "nice" parts of town you're not safe from petty crimes and break ins. Its really unfortunate because it has the potential to be an amazing city. I always stop there for the night when I am driving between Arizona and the Midwest because I love NM food, and the amount of broken glass you see in parking lots is just insane.

Santa Fe is an incredible city, but you're talking about California level housing prices. There is a lot of money in Santa Fe and its seems like it would be really hard for a mortal human with a regular job to survive there.
 

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I live in Charlotte and think it's a great place to live. If you aren't from here you might find that there is a surprising amount of riding in the Charlotte metro area with great variation from XC (i.e. 30 miles at Lake Norman State Park) to some techier stuff (i.e. Backyard Trail, Rocky River) . The local MTB club here, Tarheel Trailblazers, is very active and does an amazing job maintaining trail and is constantly adding new trail. The US National Whitewater Center is here and has 50 miles of trail plus fun activities like live music (and beer). Within 1-2 hrs is Dupont, Warrior Creek/Scott Kerr (an IMBA epic), Kanuga Bike Park, Uwharrie, and more. Pisgah is only 2-2.5 hrs away.

Real estate and cost of living here is affordable although getting more expensive because tons of people are moving here. Job opportunities are plentiful. We don't have the best culinary scene if that's your jam, but craft breweries abound. Weather sucks for a few months in summer when it's hot and humid, but if you can ride early it's fine.

AZ would be a nice place to live. You wouldn't catch me dead in CA, that state is a dumpster fire.
 

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Discussion Starter #87
Any thoughts on moving to Texas? I have not seen anyone mention that state. I have been considering relocating there.
I drove through Texas and stayed in Austin and Houston. I don't think Texas is for me, but I have friends there who really like it. I thought Houston was cool, but it's a massive city - I think 4th largest in the US or something like that.
 

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Since I am originally from California and have spent a ton of time there staying with family and/or visiting since leaving, I feel like I can throw my 2 cents in here. It's totally fair to point out that California has some big issues that it's facing. What's unfortunate is that the real problems California has are not even the ones that people point out most of the time. The majority of people who talk about how bad California is, are people who have probably only been there once or twice and are just parroting garbage they hear on main stream conservative media. It gets old hearing people in Kentucky or Ohio talking about how "taxes in California are too high". Taxes might be too high for YOU, but that doesn't mean they're too high. California has more roads and infrastructure to maintain than any other state, they have more miles of beach line to maintain than any other state, they have more National Forest to maintain than most other states and they are one state that's simultaneously harboring literally the richest humans on earth, and the poorest humans on earth.

If you want the ability to leave your house and drive to the beach, into the mountains, out into the desert or to some of the biggest attractions on the planet, then be prepared to pay for it. It's not free to maintain all of that stuff. If you want low taxes and cheap housing, move to Oklahoma and enjoy their 4 miles of singletrack that you can ride 2 months out of the year because the weather is so bad.

Here's another little secret that I will throw in. After living in Kansas City for 20+ years I can tell you, that taxes in the Midwest are not as cheap as everyone thinks they are. I spent almost $100k more on my house here in Arizona, and my taxes are less than half of what they were in Kansas City. That's not even factoring in insurance, which is also less than half of what it was back there, because everyone gets their roof replaced every 2-3 years from hail and wind damage. When you move to poor Midwest states that have all of the wealth concentrated into very small areas, you end up paying enough taxes to cover for all of the poor people who live in mobile homes out in the middle of the state.

At the end of the day you just have to pick your poison: Pay to live in a place where you can enjoy the outdoors year round, or enjoy cheaper housing and deal with garbage weather and limited things to do.
 

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But, the schools suck, the roads suck, we're getting to the point of yearly forest fires, and we're running out of water.

It's best to just stay the fawk outa AZ
I don't know about the schools here because my kids went to school in one of the stellar "underperforming" schools people always rave about in CA, you know the ones where over 25% of kids don't graduate. However, they both excelled in sports and academics and ended up with 4 year, full ride scholarships so it's at least 50% up to the parents and efforts of the child on how well they do in school.

As far as AZ running out of water, if the people that keep espousing that belief believed it themselves, they would already be gone. I know I wouldn't live here if I believed it.
 

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Zoning for density in those flat, buildable areas would help. Requiring through streets would help traffic too, currently everything is a dead end road, so you're forced onto roads that aren't designed for the traffic. A lot of the damage has already been done though, I tend to agree with that. It'll be tough to turn it around.
Avl is an old city and a lot of the damage was done a very long time ago, true. There's also some historic baggage related to historic development. Some of which the city is proud of, and some it very much isn't.

As for the thru streets, that's another thing that sounds great, but when you really dive in, becomes apparent that it isn't so easy to address. There are some major terrain and land ownership reasons why in a lot of cases.

I lived in Pittsburgh, PA for awhile, and it's like a scaled up version of Avl in some respects. It has the same kinds of terrain limitations. Since the terrain isn't so big, they have managed to squeeze in some cross streets in places, but none of them are really good at carrying volumes of traffic. Development is still mostly constrained to the valleys, like Avl. And it still sucks to get around.

You're not wrong, my point is just that is a bit more difficult in Asheville compared to other places I've lived. If the OP is working from home during a pandemic, its going to be even trickier.

Anyways...do you and Harold want to be friends? :geek:
Asheville has been far from the hardest place for me to find a social group (Pittsburgh was by far the hardest for me, but I still keep in touch with several of the people I connected with there almost 15yrs ago). I'm a pretty serious introvert, though, and it's not terribly easy for me to find a social group, but there are a couple groups that I move in. It hasn't been the easiest, either, but you're right that coming here now would really make things a challenge. It seems like my friends here are well-scattered throughout the region, so there's only a few in the neighborhood that I chat with when out walking the dogs (no 2-legged kids in my household). What's funny is that most of the friends I've made here in Asheville are fellow midwestern transplants and a few locals. That hasn't been intentional, either.
 

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Since I am originally from California and have spent a ton of time there staying with family and/or visiting since leaving, I feel like I can throw my 2 cents in here. It's totally fair to point out that California has some big issues that it's facing. What's unfortunate is that the real problems California has are not even the ones that people point out most of the time. The majority of people who talk about how bad California is, are people who have probably only been there once or twice and are just parroting garbage they hear on main stream conservative media. It gets old hearing people in Kentucky or Ohio talking about how "taxes in California are too high". Taxes might be too high for YOU, but that doesn't mean they're too high. California has more roads and infrastructure to maintain than any other state, they have more miles of beach line to maintain than any other state, they have more National Forest to maintain than most other states and they are one state that's simultaneously harboring literally the richest humans on earth, and the poorest humans on earth.

If you want the ability to leave your house and drive to the beach, into the mountains, out into the desert or to some of the biggest attractions on the planet, then be prepared to pay for it. It's not free to maintain all of that stuff. If you want low taxes and cheap housing, move to Oklahoma and enjoy their 4 miles of singletrack that you can ride 2 months out of the year because the weather is so bad.

At the end of the day you just have to pick your poison: Pay to live in a place where you can enjoy the outdoors year round, or enjoy cheaper housing and deal with garbage weather and limited things to do.
Yeah, you spent the wrong part of your life to be making statements about CA in it's current state. I spent my entire life other than the last 2 months there and know that for quality of life issues like raising a family, at least the urban areas in CA with all those nice roadways you mentioned DO NOT exist because CA is terrible at keeping up with repairs. Most of San Diego County is decades behind in roadway and especially severe system repairs. They DO NOT maintain their forests properly

CA definitely has some of the richest humans on Earth but they absolutely DO NOT have anywhere close to the poorest people on Earth. Know from you're posts that you're an intelligent person so I know you know better than that.
 

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As far as AZ running out of water, if the people that keep espousing that belief believed it themselves, they would already be gone. I know I wouldn't live here if I believed it.
This is kind of what I was getting at in my post above. People dramatize the hell out of things about states they don't live in and quite frankly have probably never visited. I still have friends and family back in Kansas City who constantly tell me they would never live in Arizona because it's too hot. When you look at their social media it's just constant complaining about the weather back there though. It's only 5 degrees in the winter, the summer is too humid, the spring is nice but all it does is rain... but Arizona is too hot and running out of water. Ok. Most of them have never even been here.

It's the same situation with California. It's easy to sit on the internet in Tennessee and talk about how California is too expensive or too crowded, even though you've never been there. Most of it is just crap they have heard from other people. I mean people who work at McDonalds, the gas station, Wendy's, secretaries... literally millions of low wage earners find a way to live happily in California. It's not like you need to have a billion dollar trust fund in your name to afford an apartment.
 

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Yeah, you spent the wrong part of your life to be making statements about CA in it's current state. I spent my entire life other than the last 2 months there and know that for quality of life issues like raising a family, at least the urban areas in CA with all those nice roadways you mentioned DO NOT exist because CA is terrible at keeping up with repairs. Most of San Diego County is decades behind in roadway and especially severe system repairs. They DO NOT maintain their forests properly and crime is rampant and ever-increasing due to ignorant voters who elect activist district attorneys.

CA definitely has some of the richest humans on Earth but they absolutely DO NOT have anywhere close to the poorest people on Earth. Know from you're posts that you're an intelligent person so I know you know better than that. The #1 reason CA taxes are so high and only going to get worse as they go after Prop #13 in the next decade is because of the amount of money they hand out to people who WILL NOT will. Why should they when CA hands out $103 Billion a year in welfare....NY, another God-forbidden state is next up at $64 billion.
My poorest people comment was directed at the homeless problem there, which is what you're talking about. My point was that there's possibly the biggest wealth gap of any other state in the country. That's not really something that's easy to deal with in this day and age. Tax the wealthy to help the poor and one side calls you and insane communist, where on the flip side if you do nothing you're accused of letting people literally rot in the street. Things like this are why I said it's fair to point out that California has problems. The main point was that if you want all of the things that California has to offer, that comes at a price. Whether or not they're failing to maintain the stuff they should be with that tax money is another discussion.
 

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Yeah, you spent the wrong part of your life to be making statements about CA in it's current state. I spent my entire life other than the last 2 months there and know that for quality of life issues like raising a family, at least the urban areas in CA with all those nice roadways you mentioned DO NOT exist because CA is terrible at keeping up with repairs. Most of San Diego County is decades behind in roadway and especially severe system repairs. They DO NOT maintain their forests properly
From what I've seen, everybody likes to grumble about how their state's road maintenance is the worst. I've seen road maintenance problems everywhere I've been.

I'm curious what makes you a forest maintenance expert, though, and what you think should be done differently? I'm hardly an expert, but I also know that it's not an easy job because there are the "ideal world" things that forest managers would prefer to do, and then there's the reality on the ground that means they almost never get to do the things that they think they should be doing.
 

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Discussion Starter #95
Santa Fe is an incredible city, but you're talking about California level housing prices. There is a lot of money in Santa Fe and its seems like it would be really hard for a mortal human with a regular job to survive there.
A quick Zillow search and you're right. It's surprising pricey. If I'm going to spend that much, I'd want to be close to a beach or have a super nice house.
 

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I've lived on the east coast, midwest, south, Hawaii and now west coast. Currently in South Orange County. I have a local trail network one mile from my house, and within 15 minutes I have access to several riding areas (Aliso, Whiting, Laguna Cnyn, San Clemente). I can ride these trails 95% of the year. In summer I can hit bike parts in Big Bear and Lake Arrowhead (2 hours), Mammoth (5 hours) or be in lake Tahoe in 7 hours. I'm 20 minutes from the beach. I have solar and due to the amount of sun we get here, I haven't paid an electric bill in years. Lots of pros and cons in every state, but I'm fortunate that I bought a home early, have an easy commute, and can mostly work from home. Central CA and SLO have some good riding and cooler temps if you are close to the beach, but you are a bit isolated, less diversity, and not close to a major airport.
 

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I’ve spent time in LA, Oakland/SF, and San Diego. Quite a bit.

I’m genuinely perplexed by the complaints about roads. They aren’t bad at all. Maybe it’s because I’ve spent time in places that get snow, have freeze-thaw and use salt, but go to Cleveland,Milwaukee, or Buffalo and you’ll learn what bad roads look like.

But, I’m guessing the CA residents who fled to AZ will keep on insisting that CA = bad.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I don't know about the schools here because my kids went to school in one of the stellar "underperforming" schools people always rave about in CA, you know the ones where over 25% of kids don't graduate. However, they both excelled in sports and academics and ended up with 4 year, full ride scholarships so it's at least 50% up to the parents and efforts of the child on how well they do in school.

As far as AZ running out of water, if the people that keep espousing that belief believed it themselves, they would already be gone. I know I wouldn't live here if I believed it.
I'm going to guess that you're pretty new to AZ, that you don't know what this place was like before the drought started 20 years ago, and that all of these things are still simply 'better than california' to you.
 

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I'm going to guess that you're pretty new to AZ, that you don't know what this place was like before the drought started 20 years ago, and that all of these things are still simply 'better than california' to you.
Also, a poor understanding of ecology. Arid climates aren't meant to support millions of people. Engineering can make it happen, but the harder you lean on that engineering, the closer to the precipice you get.
 

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I'm not sure if it's been stated, but if possible, go live in the place you land upon for a brief period of time to see if it is your gig. Rent a place for a month, or whatever.... depends on your reasons for moving.
 
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