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Sofa King We Todd Did
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Maybe I've not thought this all the way through, but could this possibly be the best dropout design ever? Seriously. Just look at everything you could do with those dropouts. I can run any kind of gear I want. I can run disc brakes if I want. What more could I possibly want that such a dropout design wouldn't deliver? If there's a downside to this design, I'd like someone to school me on it. I'm willing to learn.

Perhaps the Surly boys have a tasty patent on such a setup, but why haven't other manufacturers taken a long hard look at this design, recognized its versatility and offered us something similar in terms of do-it-all bikes?

What the hell.
 

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It ain't perfect

As a singlespeed it's a pain to remove the rear wheel (flat e.g) because the chain won't let you slide back. Every small change of wheel position because of chain wear requires disc brakes to be adjusted.
 

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pacman said:
As a singlespeed it's a pain to remove the rear wheel (flat e.g) because the chain won't let you slide back. Every small change of wheel position because of chain wear requires disc brakes to be adjusted.
It wouldn't be any harder than it is on a BMX bike, would it? You'd just slide the wheel forward enough to pop the chain off of the chainring then you'd have all the slack you need. The disc thing might be a problem unless there was enough "for/aft wiggle room" that the pads didn't loose contace with the rotor - probably not very doable. I think it all looks a tad ugly but maybe it's just that brown color.
 

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Sofa King We Todd Did
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yeah, but doesn't the versatility of this design outweigh the fidgidy adjustments needed? I mean, I'd rather have the options than not, no?

Besides, in singlespeed guise, unless you've pushed the wheel all the way forward, wouldn't you simply slide the wheel forward in the dropout to loosen the chain, take it off the cog, then pull out the wheel? Seems pretty simple to me. Then again, I've not personally built up a singlespeed bike with horizontal dropouts yet, so I may well be full of crap on this matter.
 

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Sofa King We Todd Did
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Bloody good point about the hanger. So this design isn't perfect. But that if hanger was removeable/replaceable, these dropouts would totally rock the house, right?
 

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Where's the bottle opener?

I'm kind of clueless to SS and disc brakes (since I run a tensioner and rim brakes), but doesn't the disc brake hanger cause a problem?
 

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Maybe a breakable pivot bolt would answer the der hanger question. Personally (and I'm not a SSer either) I don't understand why you'd want discs on a SS bike, seams a little hypocritical. Isn't the whole appeal of those bikes the simplicity, getting back to your roots, and warm and fuzzy feelings?
 

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nnnnnnnnnnneeeeeeeeoooooooow

Hell no!

Look at all the pieces. Cobbly welds everywhere. Ick.

You have options sure, but you have a lot of material that, once you've chosen your option, is just dangling out there doing nothing. I'd much rather have a dropout designed to be 100% effective at one specific use than 50% effective at a whole bunch of uses, of which I'll still only use one. It's cheaper though, to make one dropout, and sell a million of em, than to make 5 different dropouts and keep track of them all. So if cheap is your bag, it'd be hard to beat.

Slotted disc tabs suck. All that loads already going into a couple very small contact areas between bolt & tab. Chopping those up further aint cool at all.
 

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That is a good design but the only flaw to it that I see

is the disc mount. If you run different gear ratios the disc mount needs to move. This is very similar to Konas sliding dropouts.
 

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dir-T said:
It wouldn't be any harder than it is on a BMX bike, would it? You'd just slide the wheel forward enough to pop the chain off of the chainring then you'd have all the slack you need. The disc thing might be a problem unless there was enough "for/aft wiggle room" that the pads didn't loose contace with the rotor - probably not very doable. I think it all looks a tad ugly but maybe it's just that brown color.
I could slide it forward and get the chain off the cogs but it would still wrap around the freewheel body - from what I can tell (I use dropouts) there isn't enough clearance between the freewheel and the chainstays to get the chain around the axle for even more slack. Oh well, at least a BMX chain link unclips easily. :)
 

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Foreign Entity
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The disc calliper will be mounted to the back side of the rotor since that's where the mount dictates it to be mounted, how do you slide the disc rotor through the calliper when you slide the wheel backwards to remove it.
Not to mention the previously mentioned non-replaceable hanger.
 

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My Specialized P.2 has basically the same rear dropouts, so that it can be run single speed and with a derailleur. It also does not have a replaceable derailleur hanger, but I run it single speed anyway. The P.2 is designed as a DJ / urban / skate park type of bike. One thing that I do see that this bike has above the P.2 is that the disc brake mount allows for more adjustability. See the elongated holes for more mounting options depending on where the wheel is bolted.

I would assume that there are some other bikes with a similar design as well, but I think the best design for a single speed is where the bottom bracket rotates to give you different lengths to the dropout. Then you don't need horizontal dropouts, nor have the problem of where to mount your disc brakes.

My .02
 

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Hardly the best. You have to loosen the caliper to remove the wheel. Bianichi has been using the same basic design for 4-5 years. Long before Surly.

Sliders work better.

Set and forget until you change your gearing.
 

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No need on a steel frame. It can be bent back many times IF it gets bent in the first place. Repairable if broken. Braze or weld in a new one. Steel and Ti are strong enough to fix/straighten.

Frames did not have replaceable hangers until aluminum became a common frame material. Aluminum can not be straightened easily without breaking nor can a new dropout be brazed on.

Plus one of the reasons aluminum hanger failures are so common now is they are designed to break.
 

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dir-T said:
...I don't understand why you'd want discs on a SS bike, seams a little hypocritical...
So that you can still use your brakes after you have put a nice big wobble in your rims :)

Of course, the hard men ride fixed, so it's not a problem for them...
 

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No, I find horizontal dropouts to be largely a gimmick for many bikes. If you are going to use it with a single speed, fine, but remember to use axle nuts and not a QR. When you use a QR with horizontal dropouts, there is a tendancy for the wheel to "shift" under hard impacts, the QR simply does not clamp like axle nuts do, and is no where near as secure. The other problem is that to remove the wheel, you often have to do some monkey motion with the rear derailer, and unbolt the disc caliper.

There are some companies that do horizontal dropouts right, with little movable tensioners and other features, but standard horizontal dropouts are a lot more trouble than they are worth for the most part.
 

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SpinWheelz said:
could this possibly be the best dropout design ever?
I was thinking that it was probably the worst. This thing tries to cover ALL the bases and won't cover ANY of them very well. If a fella's gonna go SS why not take a stand and go with vertical dropouts and an EBB? And what's with the bloody gear hanger? It looks like a SS "dropout" for the SS Curious. Or maybe this is really a Gearie dropout for those who are always busting off derailers and riding home with a cobbled-up SS?

What the hell.
You took the words right outta my mouth!
 
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