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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking too get back into Dh and EVERYTHING has changed..lol. Wow..Anyway, the last MTB I owned was a TREK and it was Full suspension but had all the bad traits for DH. So...been looking around here and there and trying to figure out whats good out there and what is bad. Since it seems the core companies are still around but that new companies that I have not hear about now exist...well...im confused. Recognize the usual...Boxxer, Rox Shox, Marzocchi, GT, Intense etc.

Anyone have a suggestion for a bike? Looking dual crown bike and not really limiting my budget because good parts are worth it. (but not looking to spend $10,000 immediately) This all may be a bit vague but slowly getting back into it.
BTW...is Bombshell a good company? Haven't heard of them till tonight. Just wondering. Thanks in advance!
 

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Theres a ton of good used bikes out there relatively cheap given the current economy.
You need to see what size your looking for style of riding IE some pedaling etc where are you located and trails youll be riding etc....
THeres alot of suggestions you just need to be more specific, ie resorts, racing, freeride, hucking do you want to DJ etc...
Either way welcome back!
 

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Welcome back! The best news is that you can get a bike that will outperform your old rig for way less $. Are you planning to buy a complete bike or get the frame and pick your own parts? Intense is still badass, Santa Cruz as well. Trek has some cool stuff out too. I don't know if Bombshell is doing much as far as suspension goes, it's been quite a while since I had any contact with them (had a bro-deal for a while, friends were on the team). They do make other parts that get decent reviews but I haven't used.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks everyone! I found a bike...here is a list of what its got...well partial:

"marzocchi 888 forks, Hayes 8" disc brakes, XT derailer, Newer tires, Bombshell DH wheels and some other pretty trick stuff"...so says the author.

Selling it for around $500. He quit riding from what he says.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
What I am trying to get at (without the wife cursing me behind my back for getting into more trouble..lol) is that I am looking to get back into DH. Be it freeriding down a hill or going to a resort. (im not wanting to go uphill) I have always envied the dual crown setup and wanted to get a bike that was not brand new or complete but rather a good frame I could build up upon. No hurry. Seems technology has more or less stabilized and I am ready to invest. If I can find someones setup that they no longer want or rather get a newer bike, then I could build upon it. Its gonna get thrashed and riden. Currently I ride BMX and skate longboards. BMX beats me to hell but I love it. Want suspension and I wanna huck it off some ledges and get back to doing what I once loved. Will be possibly moving to a better location for riding (next few months) and wanted to get up to speed on whats going on and figure out what is junk and what is not. If it costs me a few $1000 over the next few years...so be it. I suspect that not all frames are equal. I also see that all manufactures use different rear shock set ups. What good these days? Vertical shock? Flat/laydown? Pivot directly to frame or on a cantilever set up? What about rear end flex and brake hop? The more I know the better I can be at purchasing a good frame/bike. Are bikes made or 6061/Aluminum or bikes better being made of Chromoly? All advice and criticism can be handled. Thanks again!
 

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Now with More Wood
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OK Seeds, this is going to be a bit of a novel, so bear with me... ;)

Frames:

There are no golden rules for things like linkage, shock placement, etc. A lot of companies doing different things, and a lot of those are good bikes. What is more important is the intended usage, as that can drive towards a particular bike with specific ride characteristics. First of all, we understand that you won't be doing much pedalling, if any. Therefore, I will hereafter only discuss the really "big bike" segment...bikes with lots of travel, many of them set up with dual crown forks etc, but not very good for pedalling (just know that today, there are bikes that can handle waaaay more DH/FR-type abuse than back in the day, and still pedal almost like a XC-bike from back then as well).

I would say for simplicity that you need to divide up between FR frames and DH frames here. FR frames are typically a little bit steeper in the headangle (around 66 degrees), a little bit shorter in the wheelbase and TT, and maybe taller in the BB. All this makes a bike which is relatively easier to manouver around, will typically "pop" more off jumps, but will compromise on stability. The pure DH bikes are longer, lower, and slacker (64-65 degrees HA), will tend to "hug the ground" more, and are generally built for maximum speed (as opposed to "flickability" or general "fun" factor). I am not saying DH bikes are not fun, nor am I saying they can't be jumped - I am just trying to paint a picture of how these 2 main types of big bikes differ in behavior. Lots of people will now chime in and say how they kill it on their jumps with their V10s...that is not the point.

You mentioned "hucking off some ledges"...which would tend to lean towards the FR side of things (just to check: you don't see yourself trying to squeeze a few seconds out of each run, going as fast as you can over really gnarly and rocky terrain for example?).

Examples of frames in the FR category: Santa Cruz VP Free, Intense Uzzi, Giant Glory (FR version), Morewood Zuza, Trek Session FR, Specialized Demo 7 (or on the "lighter" end of the FR scale, some of which can also be pedalled around a bit, Specialized SX trail, Trek Scratch, Commencal Supreme, Intense SS). OK, that should give you an idea.

DH frames: Santa Cruz V10, Intense 951 or M3, Trek Session DH, Specialized Demo 8, Giant Glory DH (both old and new version), Commencal Supreme DH, Morewood Makulu, Rocky Mountain flatline, Transition TR450 (new and SEXXXXXY!!).

There are also a lot of "boutique" manufuacturers to check out if you want to go non-mainstream...frames like the Evil Revolt, Canfield Brothers have several frames that will do either or, Banshee, Cove, etc etc.....the list can be made endless!!!

Typically, Alu frames are where it's at. You won't find much of anything else.

Linkage types...there is no one "right" answer. Virtual pivots, single pivots, single pivots with linkage...they all have their traits and characteristics, but they have all evolved to a point today where they function very well..not much talk anymore about things like brake jack etc...some designs are more "flexy" than others (oh and there is a bit of a standing joke around "flexy"...you'll pick it up if you hang around... ;) ), but most designs are fundamentally sound today.

Parts:
Dual crown forks: Boxxer 2010 (Race or Team), Fox 40 (expensive!), Marzocchi 888 if they have their **** together for 2010 (avoid 2008-2009!).
For FR, you can also go with a big single crown fork...either a RockShocks Totem or a Zocchi 66 (again, only pre 2008 or 2010) would be the most prevalent choices.

For brakes, you managed to dig up the spec list of a bike running the worse brakes in the world. Never buy a bike with old Hayes brakes. Stick with Avid Code, Shimano Saint, or newer Hayes (Stroker 2009/2010 for example). Tried and true.

For the rest..you know...whatever..deraileurs and such...SRAM or Shimano...pick your poison. SRAM have made huge inroads in the deraileur market (with good reason if you ask me...).

Don't buy a $500 bike, even used. There are no miracles in the world anymore (all the miracles disappeared as humanity "progressed"). If you want a good used bike that will allow you to enjoy progressing with the sport again, look to spend $2 to $2.5k, for something that is a year old or so. $1500 can be OK too (there are deals to be had these days with luck!)..but it gets harder to get lucky in that price range.

OK, I hope to have been of some use. Feel free to ask follow up questions, but try to get a bit more specific (maybe post up some examples of frames/bikes you are looking at for opinion etc).

Good luck, and welcome back!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Iceman2058 said:
OK Seeds, this is going to be a bit of a novel, so bear with me... ;)
WOW...THANK YOU. That has to be the BEST comprehensive write up I have seen in a looong time.

Ok..as far as the $500 bike... I fully agree. There is no free lunch. I had my doubt but didn't have the info. I figured if I shot out parts...someone would give me the low down on good/bad and that is what I wanted. Thank you.

Now..lol...I am glad to hear that pivot points, suspension issues, etc. have been figured out. When I left the sport in 1997, they were still trying everything out there and there were some bad ones. Good to hear thats one less worry.

From what I have been reading...seems like some of the newer stuff is not as good as the older stuff (some parts). I am used to that. Being a CNC machinist...you see a lot of 50+ year old machines out lasting and performing the new stuff. Whistles are annoying and bells break. But..alas...some of them are nice and make for better working environments..be it in the shop or one the trail.

As far as what I want to ride and have available to ride. Yes I have done DJ(ing) and enjoy every once and while jumping off ledges. But at the same time I am not going to race/compete. Thank you for the def. of FR and DH and how that pertains to bike development/build. Sounds like the technology has gone the side of Pro truck racing. Low, long and lots of droop (for DH). I get the idea tho and more importantly, the info for choosing a frame. Currently I live in San Diego and the hills are Eastward. About an hour away. But possibly moving the Phoenix which I would imagine has a bigger following. But I could be wrong. I imagine that either way I will have to travel to find something steep and fast which is what I love.

Well... I have some homework ahead of me to find the bike for me. There is a lot of cool stuff and lots of info. I will keep checking the forum and talk to you guys as well. Thanks again!

***Someone needs to sticky your response Iceman...awesome stuff ****
 

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Seeds, glad to have been of help. You are right, it is a great time to get back into the sport - have fun doing all the research!

As far as I've heard, there is plenty of DH action in Arizona...if you do end up there, talk to the local riders/bike shops to see what people ride in that area...it will give you some good clues as to what works for that terrain....
 

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Phoenix? We have quite a bit of DH stuff, very similar to what you'd find at Bootleg Canyon,NV. Rocky and harsh is the short description. Lots of guys to ride with and easy to get shuttles (in winter at least). Not sure if the terrain is quite what you're expecting, it can be fast and steep but those are relative terms right?
 

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Iceman2058 said:
OK Seeds, this is going to be a bit of a novel, so bear with me... ;)

Frames:

There are no golden rules for things like linkage, shock placement, etc. A lot of companies doing different things, and a lot of those are good bikes. What is more important is the intended usage, as that can drive towards a particular bike with specific ride characteristics. First of all, we understand that you won't be doing much pedalling, if any. Therefore, I will hereafter only discuss the really "big bike" segment...bikes with lots of travel, many of them set up with dual crown forks etc, but not very good for pedalling (just know that today, there are bikes that can handle waaaay more DH/FR-type abuse than back in the day, and still pedal almost like a XC-bike from back then as well).

I would say for simplicity that you need to divide up between FR frames and DH frames here. FR frames are typically a little bit steeper in the headangle (around 66 degrees), a little bit shorter in the wheelbase and TT, and maybe taller in the BB. All this makes a bike which is relatively easier to manouver around, will typically "pop" more off jumps, but will compromise on stability. The pure DH bikes are longer, lower, and slacker (64-65 degrees HA), will tend to "hug the ground" more, and are generally built for maximum speed (as opposed to "flickability" or general "fun" factor). I am not saying DH bikes are not fun, nor am I saying they can't be jumped - I am just trying to paint a picture of how these 2 main types of big bikes differ in behavior. Lots of people will now chime in and say how they kill it on their jumps with their V10s...that is not the point.

You mentioned "hucking off some ledges"...which would tend to lean towards the FR side of things (just to check: you don't see yourself trying to squeeze a few seconds out of each run, going as fast as you can over really gnarly and rocky terrain for example?).

Examples of frames in the FR category: Santa Cruz VP Free, Intense Uzzi, Giant Glory (FR version), Morewood Zuza, Trek Session FR, Specialized Demo 7 (or on the "lighter" end of the FR scale, some of which can also be pedalled around a bit, Specialized SX trail, Trek Scratch, Commencal Supreme, Intense SS). OK, that should give you an idea.

DH frames: Santa Cruz V10, Intense 951 or M3, Trek Session DH, Specialized Demo 8, Giant Glory DH (both old and new version), Commencal Supreme DH, Morewood Makulu, Rocky Mountain flatline, Transition TR450 (new and SEXXXXXY!!).

There are also a lot of "boutique" manufuacturers to check out if you want to go non-mainstream...frames like the Evil Revolt, Canfield Brothers have several frames that will do either or, Banshee, Cove, etc etc.....the list can be made endless!!!

Typically, Alu frames are where it's at. You won't find much of anything else.

Linkage types...there is no one "right" answer. Virtual pivots, single pivots, single pivots with linkage...they all have their traits and characteristics, but they have all evolved to a point today where they function very well..not much talk anymore about things like brake jack etc...some designs are more "flexy" than others (oh and there is a bit of a standing joke around "flexy"...you'll pick it up if you hang around... ;) ), but most designs are fundamentally sound today.

Parts:
Dual crown forks: Boxxer 2010 (Race or Team), Fox 40 (expensive!), Marzocchi 888 if they have their **** together for 2010 (avoid 2008-2009!).
For FR, you can also go with a big single crown fork...either a RockShocks Totem or a Zocchi 66 (again, only pre 2008 or 2010) would be the most prevalent choices.

For brakes, you managed to dig up the spec list of a bike running the worse brakes in the world. Never buy a bike with old Hayes brakes. Stick with Avid Code, Shimano Saint, or newer Hayes (Stroker 2009/2010 for example). Tried and true.

For the rest..you know...whatever..deraileurs and such...SRAM or Shimano...pick your poison. SRAM have made huge inroads in the deraileur market (with good reason if you ask me...).

Don't buy a $500 bike, even used. There are no miracles in the world anymore (all the miracles disappeared as humanity "progressed"). If you want a good used bike that will allow you to enjoy progressing with the sport again, look to spend $2 to $2.5k, for something that is a year old or so. $1500 can be OK too (there are deals to be had these days with luck!)..but it gets harder to get lucky in that price range.

OK, I hope to have been of some use. Feel free to ask follow up questions, but try to get a bit more specific (maybe post up some examples of frames/bikes you are looking at for opinion etc).

Good luck, and welcome back!
Nice! This should be a sticky.:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
kenbentit said:
Phoenix? We have quite a bit of DH stuff, very similar to what you'd find at Bootleg Canyon,NV. Rocky and harsh is the short description. Lots of guys to ride with and easy to get shuttles (in winter at least). Not sure if the terrain is quite what you're expecting, it can be fast and steep but those are relative terms right?
That they are! We already shuttle here in CA when we downhill skate so used to that and always open to it. I really want to hook up with people and see if anyone would let me ride a spare (if people do that) till I get one. Gotta keep searching. thanks everyone. Looking forward to the future.
 

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Call up the guys at Cactus Bikes. They have rental bikes and also run shuttles on the weekend.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
kenbentit said:
Call up the guys at Cactus Bikes. They have rental bikes and also run shuttles on the weekend.
Anything in San Diego? I will DEF. when I get to AZ. never heard of them...right arm...good call!
 

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I don't know of any shuttles in SD anymore. Anderson used to be a hot spot but that got shut down a long time ago. Haven't ridden anything out there in years...
 

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Seeds said:
Thanks everyone! I found a bike...here is a list of what its got...well partial:

"marzocchi 888 forks, Hayes 8" disc brakes, XT derailer, Newer tires, Bombshell DH wheels and some other pretty trick stuff"...so says the author.

Selling it for around $500. He quit riding from what he says.
since you only need one fork can I have the other???:D
 
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