REVIEWS DEALS BIKESHOPS TRAILS

Beat this to death for me

1231 Views 21 Replies 9 Participants Last post by scottryana, Jan 20, 2010

scottryana

Discussion Starter · Jan 14, 2010

Looking at a shock for my new 6 pack. I have narrowed it down to 2.

The original shock is 190x50 (7.5"x2")

I am running 5.5 rockers and 5 spot seat stays.

I can get a Cane Creek Double Barrell in the 190x50 size, or I can get a custom Avalanche in 190x57, bump stopped to 54mm to limit contact with the seat tube.

The Cane Creek would give me 5.5" of travel and the custom Avalanche would be 5.95"

Both of the shocks look to have a great range of adjustment, it looks like the Cane Creek is a little more refined and lighter.

What are the pros and cons for those of you that have these two shocks? Thanks!

Ryan.

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

jncarpenter

· #2 · Jan 14, 2010

"Looks" & "feel" are 2 very different variables

. I agree that the ccdb looks more refined, however...every one I have ridden has felt less refined than the Avy's I have owned over the years. If you like to tinker & tweak, that ability alone may sway you towards the ccdb. If you prefer someone else to custom tune your shock for you & you set/forget to simply enjoy a bombproof suspension setup, the Avy is the way to go. Another option would be the PUSH mx tuned Fox.

Renegade

· #3 · Jan 14, 2010

I'm a bit biased about this.

I have 5.5 rockers on both my 5 spot and rfx. I have tried a ccdb, and did not care for it. I have three air shocks, and two coil shocks for these two bikes. Both coil shocks are avy chubbies. Craig builds it for you. Other than adjust the rebound and the low speed compression to your liking [I never adjust the high speed compression] you can ride it and forget about dinking around with it. When I had the ccdb, I was always trying to find the right combo of settings, and never did.
CHUBBIE!

Who is that handsome guy who posted above me?

bobo_krkk_NIN

· #4 · Jan 14, 2010

I have nothing to add other than a prediction that this will go at least 80-20 in the direction of the Avy. I don't remember anyone disliking their Avy while some have had issues with getting the CCDB tuned to the right "ride" for them.

Bob

inkpad

· #5 · Jan 14, 2010

scottryana said:
Looking at a shock for my new 6 pack. I have narrowed it down to 2.

The original shock is 190x50 (7.5"x2")

I am running 5.5 rockers and 5 spot seat stays.

I can get a Cane Creek Double Barrell in the 190x50 size, or I can get a custom Avalanche in 190x57, bump stopped to 54mm to limit contact with the seat tube.

The Cane Creek would give me 5.5" of travel and the custom Avalanche would be 5.95"

Both of the shocks look to have a great range of adjustment, it looks like the Cane Creek is a little more refined and lighter.

What are the pros and cons for those of you that have these two shocks? Thanks!

Ryan.

When you say 'I can get', are you referring to getting a great deal on either, or just that you can purchase either one? I only ask because if you are going to pay close to retail for either, you owe yourself a favor in calling PUSH about one of their shocks first, as I'm sure you will love the ride, as well as probably saving a couple hundred bucks, which you can use to buy us all beer

Renegade

· #6 · Jan 14, 2010

Inkpad, if you know Darren's track record, it's gonna be a while before he's pumping out the next round of mx-tunes. This guy wants to buy a shock now, not in six months.:lol:

scottryana

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jan 14, 2010

Inkpad,

What I meant when I said I could get a CCDB in 190x50, is that is the stock size. I can get the Avalanche in a custom 190x57 that would give me another 1/2 inch of travel, with out affecting any of the geometry. Well it might actually make it a little lower and slacker considering a little more sag.

Ryan.

inkpad said:
When you say 'I can get', are you referring to getting a great deal on either, or just that you can purchase either one? I only ask because if you are going to pay close to retail for either, you owe yourself a favor in calling PUSH about one of their shocks first, as I'm sure you will love the ride, as well as probably saving a couple hundred bucks, which you can use to buy us all beer

tiSS'er

· #8 · Jan 14, 2010

Having had both, I like the Avy better. It is not as supple on the small bumps but really superior when your speed picks up.

MK_

· #9 · Jan 14, 2010

I have had an opposite experience with the CCDB and Avy that the fellows above. I far prefer the CCDB than the Avy. There are a couple of threads where I tried to stand up for the CCDB but the Avy crowd is much louder on these here boards.

_MK

miles e

· #10 · Jan 15, 2010

scottryana said:
Well it might actually make it a little lower and slacker considering a little more sag.

Assuming those are good things in your book, that alone would easily sway me towards the Avalanche. I've owned both (albeit on different bikes), and while I liked the CCDB, I love the Avy.

davep

· #11 · Jan 15, 2010

Are you sure that the longer travel avy wont create contact with future tires? I run the same spot chain and seat stays on a pack front, with both the 5.3" and the orig pack 6.1" rockers. If I stick with pretty small tires (maxxis 2.35) the longer rockers just clear. Any more tire and/or mud and would have a raw seat tube.

With bigger volume or larger knob tires, I need to go to the shorter rockers to prevent rub.

Like MK, I have liked my CCDB a lot (so much that I am thinking about replacing a custom Push/DHX with it on another bike). It has a LOT of low speed damping in both directions so it does not always give the feel of 'feel' and 'feedback' and feels like crap in the parking lot. BUT once you get up to speed, it is very good. Lots of traction and NO extra chassis movement. You have to like a very planted and controled feel.

BTW, any of you CCDB complainers ever try the 2010 version? Parabolic popet valve seats, differnt B/O bumpers, etc. The upgrade is quite affordable.

scottryana

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jan 15, 2010

Davep,

hmmm, I just checked with a spare wheel and tire. It is only a 2.2, but with a piece of metal stock drilled to 136mm the compressed i2i of a 190x57, with 3mm of bump stop. I have 15mm between the tire and seatpost tube. I am waiting on my 2.4 schwalbe and new rim, but I will check with that wheel before I jump in.

The only thing I can think of is that I am using 5.5 rockers and 6 spot chainstays which are a little longer.

Thanks, I will double check!!

davep said:
Are you sure that the longer travel avy wont create contact with future tires? I run the same spot chain and seat stays on a pack front, with both the 5.3" and the orig pack 6.1" rockers. If I stick with pretty small tires (maxxis 2.35) the longer rockers just clear. Any more tire and/or mud and would have a raw seat tube.

With bigger volume or larger knob tires, I need to go to the shorter rockers to prevent rub.

Like MK, I have liked my CCDB a lot (so much that I am thinking about replacing a custom Push/DHX with it on another bike). It has a LOT of low speed damping in both directions so it does not always give the feel of 'feel' and 'feedback' and feels like crap in the parking lot. BUT once you get up to speed, it is very good. Lots of traction and NO extra chassis movement. You have to like a very planted and controled feel.

BTW, any of you CCDB complainers ever try the 2010 version? Parabolic popet valve seats, differnt B/O bumpers, etc. The upgrade is quite affordable.

davep

· #13 · Jan 15, 2010

The longer pack chainstays will definatley give you more room....

There are a few mm plus or minus depending on whether a shock is exactly 190mm or 7.5" as well.

WIth the avy, you could always put a plastic washer under the bottom bumper to limit the travel to an exact amount if needed.

Either way, sound like a good ride.

scottryana

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jan 15, 2010

Thanks Dave,

Yeah the only problem with the CCDB is that they don't offer a 190x57. I would have to go to a 200x57, which would raise the BB and steepen the headtube angle. But with the longer i2i I wouldn't have to bumpstop it.

So I guess there are 3 options

Cane Creek DB 190x50 - stock size 5.5" of travel - little lower and slacker than stock

Avalanche Custom 190x57 - bumpstoped 5.95" of travel - the lowest

Cane Creek DB 200x57 - not bumpstoped 6.18" of travel - Higher BB, Steeper angles

I have different stock drilled to the different sizes of the 3 shocks
No Sag --- Sagged --- Bottomed out

I will measure the BB height, head and seat angles of each of the 3 shock sizes once I get the new wheels and tires, as well as the new fork.

Ryan.

davep said:
The longer pack chainstays will definatley give you more room....

There are a few mm plus or minus depending on whether a shock is exactly 190mm or 7.5" as well.

WIth the avy, you could always put a plastic washer under the bottom bumper to limit the travel to an exact amount if needed.

Either way, sound like a good ride.

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Renegade

· #15 · Jan 15, 2010

davep said:
BTW, any of you CCDB complainers ever try the 2010 version? Parabolic popet valve seats, differnt B/O bumpers, etc. The upgrade is quite affordable.

I haven't, but I'm interested. Last time I was on the phone with Malcolm, over a headset bearing issue, I suggested he send me the new version, and if I liked it, I would buy it, and if I didn't, I would return it. I thought it was a fair deal. He just laughed at me. Why's that?

MK_

· #16 · Jan 15, 2010

Renegade said:
I haven't, but I'm interested. Last time I was on the phone with Malcolm, over a headset bearing issue, I suggested he send me the new version, and if I liked it, I would buy it, and if I didn't, I would return it. I thought it was a fair deal. He just laughed at me. Why's that?

Reading this makes me think of this Barney Frank clip.

_MK

Renegade

· #17 · Jan 15, 2010

Funny MK. Yup, I live on planet Boulder, where I spend many hours arguing with dining room furniture.

davep

· #18 · Jan 15, 2010

Renegade said:
I haven't, but I'm interested. Last time I was on the phone with Malcolm, over a headset bearing issue, I suggested he send me the new version, and if I liked it, I would buy it, and if I didn't, I would return it. I thought it was a fair deal. He just laughed at me. Why's that?

I just sent my older CCDB back to them to upgrade the shock to 2010 standards (as well as a full rebiuld). The price was very reasonable.

I just ask because what I read of peoples issues with the CCDB (I have to say that the complaints are almost exclusive to this particular forum) has to do with a 'spike' in the damping (that would show up in the dyno if it was truely there).

According to Malcolm, the overall damping force with the new adjusters can be set below any other shock they have tested...including the BOS for the Moorewood Makulu (very low leverage rate that requires a very custom tune (lowest damping force they have tested)...the BOS unit for this frame is for that frame only. The entire ballance of the MTB world are covered by the four other tunes from BOS).

It does not surprise me at all that they dont want to just send you a shock. They have no lack of demand, are opening new distribution channels, and (no offense, as I am just the same) you are 'just some guy on a forum'. They have had plenty of great press from well respected testers with legitmate venues to get the word out.

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scottryana

Discussion Starter · #19 · Jan 15, 2010

Ask Malcolm if I can get a 190x57. If so I will get one today. Lol

davep said:
I just sent my older CCDB back to them to upgrade the shock to 2010 standards (as well as a full rebiuld). The price was very reasonable.

I just ask because what I read of peoples issues with the CCDB (I have to say that the complaints are almost exclusive to this particular forum) has to do with a 'spike' in the damping (that would show up in the dyno if it was truely there).

According to Malcolm, the overall damping force with the new adjusters can be set below any other shock they have tested...including the BOS for the Moorewood Makulu (very low leverage rate that requires a very custom tune (lowest damping force they have tested)...the BOS unit for this frame is for that frame only. The entire ballance of the MTB world are covered by the four other tunes from BOS).

It does not surprise me at all that they dont want to just send you a shock. They have no lack of demand, are opening new distribution channels, and (no offense, as I am just the same) you are 'just some guy on a forum'. They have had plenty of great press from well respected testers with legitmate venues to get the word out.

MK_

· #20 · Jan 15, 2010

scottryana said:
Ask Malcolm if I can get a 190x57. If so I will get one today. Lol

(800) 234-2725

Although you'll have to wait 'till Monday as it's a weekend there already.

_MK

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

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