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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone else have this problem? I've had the On-One Fatty for over a year now (pre-ordered first batch). It's been a good bike so far but I cannot get the bead to stay seated.

I drilled out my rims last summer and generally haven't had a problem yet, both rims are completely true. I have also experimented with different tubeless techniques for around a year now. I'm only having problems with the front tyre/wheel, the rear has never given me a problem. I'm fairly light and run the front around 4.5-6 psi (snow and summer trails) and maybe less for deep soft snow. The rear sits around 6-9 psi.

Different bead seating problems below:

Inner tube
With the drilled On-One rims (28mm holes) and floaters (1 month old) the bead tends to seat around 20-30 psi. The rim is clean and I've tried both greased and non-greased tyre beads. Airing down to 5-5.5 psi generally keeps the bead seated most of the time but it slips once I start riding (within minutes, seconds if I use the brake). The type of bead slip is this side-to-side wiggle (the bead slips in different areas). The tube is a schwalbe downhill tube 2.5-3 inch.

Tubeless - split inner tube
Running a split inner tube for ghetto tubeless (the rear is set up like this and has been great for months) doesn't give better results. Again the bead fully seats around 20-30 psi but typically slips back partially around 8 psi and once I start riding both sides have slipped. This one slips at the same location on both sides and leads to this very irritating juddering when riding but the tread doesn't wobble.

Tubeless - gorilla tape
The gorilla tape and greased tyre bead (using vacuum grease for sealing) seats fully at 20 psi and airing down to 5.5 psi stays fully seated but as soon as you ride it slips again and loses air almost immediately.

I haven't yet tried different rims or swapping the rear and front tyres but frankly I shouldn't be having this problem. This is really affecting my enjoyment of the bike and my confidence in riding. I'd prefer to stick with the On-One Floaters as they have excellent price/performance and I don't have the money to spend on new rims yet.

One thing I haven't yet tried are Surly inner tubes, since they are a bit bigger they should provide a firmer push at the bead - has anyone else tested this?
 

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bigger than you.
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I wouldn't recommend grease on your tires, ever. if anything, a little bit of soapy water should be all you need; you want a modicum of friction to keep the bead in place- grease seems counterproductive, not to mention potentially harmful to the rubber in your tires, depending on the composition of the grease. degrease the seating surfaces and see how it works for you.
 

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is buachail foighneach me
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I've never had a tire slip off the bead on a Speedway/Fatback rim. They've had bead locking lips since '09 I think, and engage with a very positive 'pop'. I had some of their earlier rims without the bead lock and still don't recall ever having the bead slip. Some tires can be difficult to seat on them, taking up to 40+ psi, but for the added security once they're on there, it's worth it.

I would agree with the above poster that you should never grease your tires. I think whoever told you to do that is probably giggling at having pulled one over on you.
 

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No Pro here, but with the comment that it starts to leak after you hit the brakes, it maybe that the tire is just too big, and under pressure it slide along the rim.

To check that, I would pressure it up, make a mark on the tire and the rim, go out and hit the brakes and see if the tire has slipped on the rim.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I wouldn't recommend grease on your tires, ever.
I'm using vacuum grease (rubber safe) and only in the last few days as I've been playing with tubeless options. It seems to make no difference.


No Pro here, but with the comment that it starts to leak after you hit the brakes, it maybe that the tire is just too big, and under pressure it slide along the rim.
It's not that, the rim and tyres are sold together..what happens is that the force from braking hard squashes the tyre and therefore more force is on the bead - you must've noticed something similar.
 

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You may well be right, but for the cost of 1/4" of sharpie ink, I'd try it just to eliminate the possiblility.
 

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i don't understand why you'd use a grease at all.

all the sealants and prepping techniques are water based. i'd assume this is so there is some stickiness where they dry out.

my tires with stans are essentially "glued" to the rim. i need to peel them off of the rim..

i would think any grease or oil would prevent this adhesion from occurring.

now you've got to try to degrease them, who knows what the tire rubber is like now

have you asked the stans people in their forum?
they're quite helpful

dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
i don't understand why you'd use a grease at all.

all the sealants and prepping techniques are water based. i'd assume this is so there is some stickiness where they dry out.

my tires with stans are essentially "glued" to the rim. i need to peel them off of the rim..

i would think any grease or oil would prevent this adhesion from occurring.

now you've got to try to degrease them, who knows what the tire rubber is like now

have you asked the stans people in their forum?
they're quite helpful

dave
I used grease because I was attempting the gorilla tape method again and grease is very airtight at the rubber-metal interface. This is something I was trying in the last few days whereas the bead seating problem is something I've had for 8 months now. It's not that.

To everyone else, I don't have a problem getting the bead seated but rather it becomes unseated when riding at normal pressures, regardless of tubeless or not.
 

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I'd prefer to stick with the On-One Floaters as they have excellent price/performance and I don't have the money to spend on new rims yet.
Huh. I'd expect that as the inventor of the internet that you'd be able to afford whatever rims or tires you want. Couldn't figure out how to monetize it?;)

All kidding aside, there are many reports of wide variations in manufacturing tolerances for fat tires, even within the same brand and model. Buy (or borrow) a different tire to see if that eliminates the problem. Trying out a Surly tube is worth a shot. I experimented with some 2.75" downhill tubes that were not stretchy enough to fill the tire at normal single-digit fat bike pressures. However, I'd think that going tubeless should've solved this.
 

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Hybrid Leftys aren't real
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I'll go ahead and defend greasing a tire to get the bead to seat.

Not a normal day to day habit, pressure and hand tweaking generally gets the job done. But I've run across more than a few tires over the years (generally cheaper ones) that are recalcitrant beyond all comprehension.

In those cases, a bit of grease applied to the area that refuses to seat, air it back up, and 9 times in 10, POP, air down and wipe off the excess.

To date, never had an issue in close to 30 years of applying it, either rubber break down or tires popping off spontaneously, so I'm not quite sure what all the kerfuffle is about......

As to the OP's question, no experience with the OnOne stuff, but yes, variability in the fatbike market is significant, a new rim, or tire may make a world of difference.
 

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agree with you on that.
everyone's experiences vary.
i have no doubt that the variance in manufacturers is huge in our young sport.
new rims/tires/or combinations may be your only option.
my clownshoes bud/lou tolerate really low pressures, but i am a lightweight weakling so YMMV

dave
 

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I'm fairly light and run the front around 4.5-6 psi (snow and summer trails) and maybe less for deep soft snow. The rear sits around 6-9 psi.
This is probably why. The tires start getting squirmy and self steer gets pretty crazy around 10psi. Lots of people might "think" they are running only 4, but at that PSI I'd expect the tire to roll right off the rim. Oh sure, I lower the PSI down a lot from my commuting PSI for soft trails/snow, but it sounds like you are trying to drop the psi way too low. I have the on-one bike/tires. Sounds like you may need bigger tires?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
This is probably why. The tires start getting squirmy and self steer gets pretty crazy around 10psi. Lots of people might "think" they are running only 4, but at that PSI I'd expect the tire to roll right off the rim. Oh sure, I lower the PSI down a lot from my commuting PSI for soft trails/snow, but it sounds like you are trying to drop the psi way too low. I have the on-one bike/tires. Sounds like you may need bigger tires?
Bigger tyres are always better of course. I weigh ~60kg so increasing the pressure isn't an option, I'd get better performance running a standard MTB if I had to run the front at 10+ psi. No issues with squirm or self steer even at low PSI here. The tyre drop is 10-20% at 5-5.5 psi.
 

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I use a but front and nate rear with surly tubes I can never get the bead to pop on evertime I try it just blows off the rim when pumping ..its scary and afraid to take over 20psi now ...ive tried tubless 3 or 4 times with floater and got them to seal but couldn't get em seated no pop even at 35 psi let the tyres back down and you can push em off with finger.so went back to surly tubes with slime in ...

Press thx if i help you
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Some results now...I swapped the front and rear tyres and the problem went away. Now the rear (which previously was absolutely perfect) now drops out of round easily. Seems like a defect in the tyres.
 

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Something that may be coming into play. I emphasize the "may".

Trace grease (even from fingerprints) on the rims interfering with the adhesion, be it the intentional adhesion of tape, or the material-to-material adhering of tube to rim.

Where you're overlapping tape, you've likely left grease (from hands) on the surface of the tape you've already applied to the rim. This leaves the overlapping seam in doubt.

Some people seem to run into issues with this, even with multiple application of alcohol wipes. Others do nothing and it works out fine. No answer why for one and not for the other.

But to truly get maximum tape adhesion, you need to degrease the surface you'll be applying the tape to. Alcohol and other solvents just dilute any grease present. You hope you remove a lot of that grease by wiping that alcohol away. The typical result is less grease than what you started with, spread over a larger area. The more times you repeat, the less grease you have. The problem: how much grease did you have at the start and how do you tell when have you removed all of it, or enough of it...

The thorough way is to use a true degreaser. Actually removes the grease, instead of diluting it and spreading it around. Look to the automotive paint industry for sources. Although I hate their paint (fails too often in the environment where I live), I really like the results I get from the POR-15 Marine Clean (now called "POR-15 Cleaner Degreaser Formerly Marine Clean"). It is water-based, really easy to use, a little goes a long way and does a great job.

There is the issue of leaving the nipple-to-spoke and nipple-to-rim lubed for future spoke tension touch-up; I don't have a solution. Perhaps careful degreasing of the area where the tape will be applied but make sure you skip the nipples, so don't dunk the rim?
 

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OP has determined the problem is the tire, after swapping tires to rims and problem followed the tire. New tire best option, second best, try scuffing the tires bead area with 60 grit sandpaper, use no grease. Use alcohol or hairspray to make seating easier.
 
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