[slapheadmofo]

What the OP is talking about is price gouging.

Only applies to essentials, not toys.

 

[86 Keg]

Where do you live that you would even think that's a possibility?

it seems there are people ordering multiple bikes online and reselling. if you were to do this with cars for example - there are several issues including license to be a dealer, taxes etc. if not complying - that would be illegal. i really dont know if any of this applies to private party scalper who is just trying to make some money reselling new bikes

otherwise - i dont see real issue with private party getting what they can for their used bike. personally, a little split whether i should keep my old bike as a spare, or sell while the market is good,.. my prediction is that as supply catches up, there will be more-than-normal amount of used-like-new bikes entering the used market as people discover they really just aren't using them. and of course that would probably not help the resell value of my old 26"

 

[slapheadmofo]

it seems there are people ordering multiple bikes online and reselling. if you were to do this with cars for example - there are several issues including license to be a dealer, taxes etc. if not complying - that would be illegal. i really dont know if any of this applies to private party scalper who is just trying to make some money reselling new bikes

It doesn't. You should see what goes on with sneakers, etc.

 

[86 Keg]

It doesn't. You should see what goes on with sneakers, etc.

in talking to a friend about whether or not i should claim some income on my tax form, he suggested 'don't - they'll tell you if you're supposed to.'

fwiw - very common for people to be acting as used car dealers w/o licensing, taxing etc.. the biggest hurdle is not getting caught of course. and that's pretty easy provided they never take legal title during their short ownership. the fact that it's commonly done doesnt make it 'legal'.

but in my limited time looking at classifieds from various sources, i think there are two more significant issues - stolen bikes being resold, and scam long-distance ads prolly based upon identity theft at some level.

i've seen several FB ads that really smelled of stolen bikes dealer, and was personally 100% ripped off on a long distance ad that took paypal and never shipped. how can they do this? paypal requires a credit card etc to secure the account,.. i'm not sure but i expect based on identity theft or out-of-country address fraud. idk - but in my case paypal resolved in my favor and refunded me.

there is plenty going on in used market besides a little high prices here and there

btw - i did notice some ads for pricey sport shoes but didnt pay them much mind as not being my thing. more puzzling to me - what is with all these ads with girl/women torso pics trying to sell used clothing - is that legit or is something else going on?

 

[slapheadmofo]

fwiw - very common for people to be acting as used car dealers w/o licensing, taxing etc.. the biggest hurdle is not getting caught of course. and that's pretty easy provided they never take legal title during their short ownership.

Which of course has zero to do with things like bikes and sneakers.

 

[Harold]

any taxes owed for operating a business reselling items is a completely different issue. You have no way of knowing if someone is doing what they're supposed to do on that end or not. I've seen cities crack down on people who run perpetual garage sales, because they're effectively running a resale business without doing what they're supposed to do from a tax and permitting standpoint.

There is absolutely zero legal implication for someone buying a bunch of bikes at retail, marking them up, and then reselling them. Assholery, sure. But not illegal. The sneaker analogy is spot on. Sneaker resellers are nuts. All because there are lot of people who like to collect them, and the industry makes these limited release shoes to attract these folks.

 

[Klurejr]

The market determines the price, not you.

Sellers have an obligation to not lie about what they are selling (i.e. year, spec, etc.) but that's it. There is no formula that says a used product must be X% of MSRP because XDi says so. Ever look at a used Porsche GT RS pricing, they are well above new MSRP.

I just sold a 2 year old Mondraker frame for approximately 30% of new cost, because that's what the market determined. If I could have gotten more in my timeline you better believe I would have.

Suns is correct, what is happening right now is a result of Supply/Demand and while it might not be "fair" for someone to purchase a brand new bike and then re-sell it for a mark up, that is not illegal. It is a sign of the times, in the past that strategy would never work.

Either you have the patience to wait for the bike to be available at your local shop / online retailer, or you do not and pony up the money to buy on the secondary market.

The used market is always about what someone is willing to pay for an item, that is true with anything, not just bicycles.

 

[slapheadmofo]

There is absolutely zero legal implication for someone buying a bunch of bikes at retail, marking them up, and then reselling them. Assholery, sure. But not illegal. The sneaker analogy is spot on. Sneaker resellers are nuts. All because there are lot of people who like to collect them, and the industry makes these limited release shoes to attract these folks.

Buy low, sell high.

That's called smart in my book.

 

[86 Keg]

any taxes owed for operating a business reselling items is a completely different issue. You have no way of knowing if someone is doing what they're supposed to do on that end or not. I've seen cities crack down on people who run perpetual garage sales, because they're effectively running a resale business without doing what they're supposed to do from a tax and permitting standpoint.

There is absolutely zero legal implication for someone buying a bunch of bikes at retail, marking them up, and then reselling them. Assholery, sure. But not illegal. The sneaker analogy is spot on. Sneaker resellers are nuts. All because there are lot of people who like to collect them, and the industry makes these limited release shoes to attract these folks.

generally speaking there are potential legal consequences in selling of practically anything at any time. i dont have any real issue with scalping and it seems relatively uncommon in the big picture. i would consider it to be more of a thing between scalper and gov and/or the manufacturer which may have some liability involved. not being an attorney specializing in this sort of thing, i wouldnt say, is why i didnt say. i do know that laws regarding scalping tickets for example vary from state to state and that used car sellers must become licensed asa dealer and obtain tax ID etc at anything greater than just a few transactions/year.

in any case, i see scalping as being unsavory, but minor issue. the outright fraudulent offers and stolen bikes is probly more relevant and important topic for anyone looking to the used bike market

 

[86 Keg]

Buy low, sell high.

That's called smart in my book.

in windsurf we buy high, sell low. it is the name of the game and just seems no way around it. even the pandemic hasnt changed our basic economic model. anyone caught price gouging would be laughed off the beach

 

[Harold]

generally speaking there are potential legal consequences in selling of practically anything at any time. i dont have any real issue with scalping and it seems relatively uncommon in the big picture. i would consider it to be more of a thing between scalper and gov and/or the manufacturer which may have some liability involved somewhere. not being an attorney specializing in this sort of thing, i wouldnt say, is why i didnt say. i do know that laws regarding scalping tickets for example vary from state to state and that used car 'dealers' must be licensed at anything greater than couple transactions/year.

in any case, i see scalping as being unsavory, but minor issue. the outright fraudulent offers and stolen bikes is probly more of an issue for anyone looking to used bike market

for bikes? wtf are the potential legal consequences for reselling bikes? if obtained legally, the only potential consequences are related to tax liability, business licenses, and that junk. But that isn't unique to this year, or to bicycles.

bicycles aren't tickets. event tickets are a whole other thing. they're not a tangible item. they're a certificate that grants you admission to an event with limited attendance. they're also not cars with registration and licensing requirements.

 

[86 Keg]

for bikes? wtf are the potential legal consequences for reselling bikes? if obtained legally, the only potential consequences are related to tax liability, business licenses, and that junk. But that isn't unique to this year, or to bicycles.

bicycles aren't tickets. event tickets are a whole other thing. they're not a tangible item. they're a certificate that grants you admission to an event with limited attendance. they're also not cars with registration and licensing requirements.

starting to seem like maybe something you 're interested in?

How to Become an Authorized Bicycle Dealer

Owners of small sport and bicycle shops can gain a considerable amount of credibility by becoming authorized bicycle dealers for well-known manufacturers. Being affiliated with major corporations of trusted brand name products can do wonders for improving your business reputation and...

careertrend.com

 

[noapathy]

Wait, so y'er sayin' that 2 year Walgoose on FB marketplace isn't worth $500?

 

[Harold]

starting to seem like maybe something you 're interested in?

How to Become an Authorized Bicycle Dealer

Owners of small sport and bicycle shops can gain a considerable amount of credibility by becoming authorized bicycle dealers for well-known manufacturers. Being affiliated with major corporations of trusted brand name products can do wonders for improving your business reputation and...

careertrend.com

Not sure if serious....or just obtuse.

That doesn't apply here. Resellers aren't buying from manufacturers and getting distributor accounts. They aren't offering warranties. Honestly, there is absolutely zero functional difference between these people and people who sell random used bikes. I've met all kinds of people who buy and resell used bikes to make money. Buy low, sell high. Sometimes, it's just a matter of buying from someone who doesn't realize that they have something collectors would desire, and reselling it as-is for more money, to the right audience. Sometimes it involves cleaning up a classic Italian road bike you found in a barn in BFE. The resellers have simply realized that with short supply, if they can buy new bikes at retail, they can actually sell for more money on the used market.

There is zero law against this. Becoming an authorized bicycle dealer is about building business relationships with vendors, getting a retail space, and making sure your finances are in order. It has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

[chazpat]

While it is a matter of supply and demand, I think the OP was largely just talking about sellers who way over price and take advantage of people who do no research on what the bike is worth and pay greatly inflated prices due to their lack of knowledge.

I came across the below today. I've never heard of this brand and maybe I'm wrong, but it looks like the seller is trying to take advantage of someone to me, though I doubt they'll get any takers, though it does have a frame mounted water holder.

 

[86 Keg]

Not sure if serious....or just obtuse.

That doesn't apply here. Resellers aren't buying from manufacturers and getting distributor accounts. They aren't offering warranties. Honestly, there is absolutely zero functional difference between these people and people who sell random used bikes. I've met all kinds of people who buy and resell used bikes to make money. Buy low, sell high. Sometimes, it's just a matter of buying from someone who doesn't realize that they have something collectors would desire, and reselling it as-is for more money, to the right audience. Sometimes it involves cleaning up a classic Italian road bike you found in a barn in BFE. The resellers have simply realized that with short supply, if they can buy new bikes at retail, they can actually sell for more money on the used market.

There is zero law against this. Becoming an authorized bicycle dealer is about building business relationships with vendors, getting a retail space, and making sure your finances are in order. It has nothing to do with this discussion.

i get it - times are tough, no toilet paper for a year, yada yada, do what you have to do, but i suggest try to find someone that actually knows because as i said the first time i mentioned the topic - i dont. mebbe call whatever brand it is you want to resell and ask them.

hope this helps

 

[Sparticus]

This has become one of the most ridiculous threads I've endured on MTBR in a long time -- and I've endured quite a few. I said it once, I'll say it again: A thing is worth whatever someone will pay for it.

If I can get $35,000 for my 2007 On One Inbred singlespeed (genuine cro-moly!) then that's that -- I'm $35,000 richer and whoever loved it enough to give me $35,000 for it is that much poorer but he's got his (evidently) dream bike. Case closed.

Let's use our heads, folks. This is not that hard to figure out. There are certainly no laws governing it. Sell what you want, buy what you want. We each have to make our own way.

Now can we please stop the insanity.
=sParty

 

[Harold]

i get it - times are tough, no toilet paper for a year, yada yada, do what you have to do, but i suggest try to find someone that actually knows because as i said the first time i mentioned the topic - i dont. mebbe call whatever brand it is you want to resell and ask them.

hope this helps

I guess I should have called Salsa when I sold my Bucksaw this summer? And Santa Cruz for wanting to sell the old Blur my wife didn't want anymore. And Diamondback for the cross bike my wife also no longer wanted to ask them if I could resell them?

I mean honestly, this is beyond idiocy. Yes, I know, and I'm telling you. I don't need to ask permission to resell bicycles.

 

[{|xDi|}]

This has become one of the most ridiculous threads I've endured on MTBR in a long time -- and I've endured quite a few. I said it once, I'll say it again: A thing is worth whatever someone will pay for it.

If I can get $35,000 for my 2007 On One Inbred singlespeed (genuine cro-moly!) then that's that -- I'm $35,000 richer and whoever loved it enough to give me $35,000 for it is that much poorer but he's got his (evidently) dream bike. Case closed.

Let's use our heads, folks. This is not that hard to figure out. There are certainly no laws governing it. Sell what you want, buy what you want. We each have to make our own way.

Now can we please stop the insanity.
=sParty

"A thing is worth however much someone is willing to pay for it"

Just because someone has a random reason to pay an obviously ridiculously overpriced amount of money wasting it just to obtain this item, does not mean that item is "worth" that price. It may be "worth" it to that person, but we have a word for that type of person, a sucker. That person has some type of sentimental or emotional or compulsive feeling that makes them want to spend a silly amount of money on an item that just isn't worth that value. If you know your market and value you wouldn't keep feeding the scalpers which is just encouraging this dirty practice more. If they find one sucker then they will try to find more. Surely there are needles in the hay stack and they might find them.

If a bike for example has a general value that 99% of It's audience would or should already know going into it. The other 1% of stragglers too busy or unaware enough to do some research and know the value of the item they want to buy used? Well this thread is for them to encourage them to make a more informed decision and not get ripped off in the dirty maket/world we live in today. That is why this thread is not silly or ridiculous, is a big problem that even though you know about it, some might not. It's not just bikes, It's a lot of stuff being wiped off the shelves and resold for more money. This artificial inflation caused by the people is aimed at the people. Like shooting your fellow friend or neighbor in the foot for your own profit, which then will spiral into everyone doing it shooting the initial scalpers in the foot because they are being out-scalped and their livelihood of scalping is now compromised because everyone is a scalper now.

It's like we live in a some weird post-apocalyptic world where random items are being scalped for more money than what they are worth. People holding items for hostage unless payed a premium. Taking supply into their own hands and gouging the public for it.

Whether or not there is any laws about this stuff happening or not, it sure does throw a wrench into the scene. Is it new? No. Is it surprising? No. Will it continue and prolly get worse? Hope not. Is it a sad world we live in that it has come to ripping each other off? Yes. Will i be ripped off? No. Will others get ripped off? Maybe. So know your information when buying used. Unless you're rich and can afford to throw money away by all means. The 99.99% of all other people could spend their money wisely and stretch their dollar as far as then can which is the smarter thing to do. Don't feed the scalpers. Know your market.

 

[WHALENARD]

While it is a matter of supply and demand, I think the OP was largely just talking about sellers who way over price and take advantage of people who do no research on what the bike is worth and pay greatly inflated prices due to their lack of knowledge.

I came across the below today. I've never heard of this brand and maybe I'm wrong, but it looks like the seller is trying to take advantage of someone to me, though I doubt they'll get any takers, though it does have a frame mounted water holder.

View attachment 1911288

I wonder if he'd take $400 for it

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