Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Woodlot local
Joined
·
497 Posts
I think Keith will chime in here once he sees this, but from my understanding they are similar but they are different designs as far as patents are concerned.

Something to do with axle path and instant center.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
967 Posts
"It doesn't copy or infringe the DW-link patents because despite having a vaguely similar looking layout, the performance characteristics are significantly different. The axle path is more rearwards and the centre of curvature position and motion is completely different to any DW-link bike for starters..."

Copy and paste...not my words.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,313 Posts
haha mjw got there before me... yeah, it is a different design as far as patents are concerned. Mainly due to the instantanious center path, as that is the thing most covered really by DW in his patent.

I don't really believe in patents for 'styles' of suspension linkage, as they have all existed for a long time in cars etc, but some companies and people choose to attempt to protect their designs, so who am I to stop them.

Personally although I know the DW link preforms well, I have never been a big fan of the 'feel' of the ride you get from them, especially not for freeride or DH. But that is a personal preferance, and I know a lot of people love them. I designed my bikes to have a different and more lively feel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
A more lively feel...

Just as an interest thing, can you expand on this? Does this mean that your designs are less of the wallowy style, and more of the 'jumpy' touch? Does the rearward axle path come into this?

Cheers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,313 Posts
It is a combination of things like axle path, instantaneous center path and a little bit about leverage ratios.

Rearward axle path helps the suspension feel more active over square edge bumps, and also creates a controlled amount of chain stretch which helps increase pedaling efficiency. The bikes are designed to work with certain types of shocks (e.g. pyre with small volume air shock, rune with large volume air shock) and the progressive rate of the shock is considered when designing the leverage curve of the linkage to create an overall progressive feel, but with a subtle pedal platform designed in just above the sag point to help with pedalling efficiency and creating a nice compression platform for boosting off lips if you want to or hopping up things or over obsticals.

As always suspension perforance is a result of a combination of a lot of factors, and creating the right balance for the given style of riding.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,799 Posts
Hey builttoride question for ya,

builttoride said:
haha mjw got there before me... yeah, it is a different design as far as patents are concerned. Mainly due to the instantanious center path, as that is the thing most covered really by DW in his patent.

I don't really believe in patents for 'styles' of suspension linkage, as they have all existed for a long time in cars etc, but some companies and people choose to attempt to protect their designs, so who am I to stop them.

Personally although I know the DW link preforms well, I have never been a big fan of the 'feel' of the ride you get from them, especially not for freeride or DH. But that is a personal preferance, and I know a lot of people love them. I designed my bikes to have a different and more lively feel.
I think It's safe to say that Banshee's leap on to the 29er stage will be a HUGE hit.( in the hardtail format) Is anybody there talking and or thinking 29er fully? If so or either way I guess what design would you like to see Banshee build this 29er fully around? ICT,DW,TNT,4-bar, or something that you all are already using in your 26" line-up? Thanks..CF....
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,799 Posts
builttoride said:
already started thinking about a FS 29er...have a few ideas up my sleave!
That A boy...But this doesn't surprise me..Any names in mind yet? How bout the new Banshee 29erCF? Or the Banshee CF 2-9-R.:D Always thinking bro,always thinking..CF.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
When comparing both suspensions you also have to consider that each can be executed differently by tweeking other things. I'll bet you Turner feels different from IBIS or Pivot and even within each bike line it might be hard to compare as other variables will affect the feel.
However on a global more macro look they will share somewhat similar traits.

Builttoride has been stellar in coming up with names, but they're pretty imporant so we do spend alot of time considering what works for which bike.

Here's a question tho... i'm thinking 4" as the feel will be that of a 6" or a nice all mountain ride.
I would like to take what we did with the Paradox and give it short stays and the VF4B really lends itself to a 29r as with the wheel going back it helps so that the tire doesn't hit the seattube when going deep into the travel.
I don't think we'll ever see 29rs going beyond the WFO as the chainstay lengths might have to be rediculous. Currently our Rune is 17.3" [WFO is 17.9] so if we can keep things nice and tight in the back it should make for an excellent technical climber.
Anyway thats my thoughts
 

·
a tight kick sound
Joined
·
1,812 Posts
mjw, where are you "copy and paste-ing" this info from?

Jay, I think a Banshee 9er around the Pyre platform with a bit longer CS would be KILLER!!
4-4.5 inches, huge standover room, AM head angles (banshees idea of AM head angles that is) and super stiff rear- as usual! That sounds like an F-U-N fun bike to me :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
Lively feel...

Well, I can't wait to get my own lively feeling Rune, though those new wheels will have to be on hold thanks to the worlds bankers! Are Rune's still expected around Feb here in the UK?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
Fanbloomingtastic

I wish I'd put my name down for one last year, but I'll get over to Freeborn at some point to talk turkey. Still the same package as last year I assume, and still same colour choices?

cheers in advance.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,799 Posts
TerrorFirma said:
When comparing both suspensions you also have to consider that each can be executed differently by tweeking other things. I'll bet you Turner feels different from IBIS or Pivot and even within each bike line it might be hard to compare as other variables will affect the feel.
However on a global more macro look they will share somewhat similar traits.

Builttoride has been stellar in coming up with names, but they're pretty imporant so we do spend alot of time considering what works for which bike.

Here's a question tho... i'm thinking 4" as the feel will be that of a 6" or a nice all mountain ride.
I would like to take what we did with the Paradox and give it short stays and the VF4B really lends itself to a 29r as with the wheel going back it helps so that the tire doesn't hit the seattube when going deep into the travel.
I don't think we'll ever see 29rs going beyond the WFO as the chainstay lengths might have to be rediculous. Currently our Rune is 17.3" [WFO is 17.9] so if we can keep things nice and tight in the back it should make for an excellent technical climber.
Anyway thats my thoughts
Very interesting..I think your right as to no 29er fult should be or even needs to be more than the Niner WFO..I'd love to see a 4.5 or 5" Fully from you guys at Banshee in the VERY near furture...If the Rune is 17.3 this would mean that a 29er would have to be at least what 17.6? Ladies and Gentlemen here it is the new 5" 29er fully called the Banshee CF9R...:D I like it...I like it ALOT....CF..............;)
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top