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To your dropper Q, I'm running a 170mm PNW Bachelor, which doesn't have the lowest stack ever, and with about 1.5" of space above the post clamp before the threaded seal head assembly on the post. I could go about a half inch lower into the frame without running out of space. With something shorter like the OneUp post, I bet I could just barely run a 200mm post.

I had an alloy Sentinel before my Titan, which was 15mm longer reach. Ran a 40mm stem on that bike, running 50mm on my Titan, and fit really isn't that much different. The Titan has tall stack, so feels bigger than the reach would imply.
Thanks sir :). If I can get > 170mm of drop, thats great. Currently using a 170mm oneup dropper, and I think it would be hard to get used to less I think.

To your point, I've got a big spreadsheet of bikes I'm considering. And calculating the "Span" distance for each bike has actually been really helpful (the hypotenuse "distance" resulting from the reach and stack heights). As it helps show the distance from hands to feet, and which bikes should actually "feel" bigger.

The Large Titan has a bit larger span (797mm) than my current Kona Process 153 29'er (782mm), even though it has 5mm less reach. Currently using a 50mm stem on the Kona, and it still feels a touch small, and without being able to demo, its hard to know if the large titan is larger "enough".

The XL Titan has 819mm of span, so its a fair bit bigger.
 

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Thanks for the response. Sounds like we're pretty close in proportions then.

Looking at the specs, I have had the same worry about the dropper post insertion depth (particularly on the XL). What size/type of dropper are you using, and how much do you have exposed above the clamp if I can ask? And agreed no bike is perfect. The Banshee is still totally on my radar. Its geo is just different enough that its hard to find anything even close to its geo, while lots of other bikes you can often find a fairly similar geo to at least sit on (ie, Privateer 141/161, Transition Sentinel and Norco Sight have very similar angles and measurements to each other, and the last two are common enough that you might be able to guess at Privateers frame sizing... not so on the Banshee).

The front center differences between the bikes shouldn't affect bike fit though right? Front center is also a function of head tube angle (because its based on wheelbase), which is why I'm i'm not sure that fitment would feel different. Totally agree that it would affect the weight balance though.

Thanks again :).
I have a 180mm OneUp dropper that is pretty much in as far as it will go. There is about 45mm above the seat clamp showing.

I had a 170mm AXS and I couldn't use it as the insertion wasn't deep enough.
 

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I’m generally a big fan of NSMB; they may be a bit, uh, “eccentric” on occasion, but generally top-notch material.

The initial Titan review is something of a head-scratcher. I get that experienced riders often have unusual setups or different tastes in regard to fit. But from where I’m sitting, the reviewer should be on a medium. And that’s being reflected in the tone of the article. Weird.
 

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The NSMB part 1 review was indeed odd, it was more talking about frame features and then justification for component choices and than talking about any actual riding, especially descending.

I'd say he should have been Medium too but he was close enough that a Large is a stretch but not hugely so.

He's one of the first to not love a steep seat angle for climbing. Heck I still have my saddle slid forward on the rails on mine.

I have a '21 Stumpjumper EVO now too and although the effective SA on that is steeper the actual is steeper on the Titan. Easy to determine as I took the same dropper and seat from the Titan onto the Evo and had to tilt the saddle down some rather than up if it were steeper.
 

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I just picked up a new Evo, too. Not immediately in love, but only two rides in. Also have the new Tallboy and definitely in love with that one. Banger little bike.
 

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It is interesting that his frame with headset cups, axle, shock, and seatpost clamp weighs 9.52 pounds (doesn't say if it includes the ISGS adaptor that weighs .056 pounds). My Prime v3 raw in large with the DPX2, headset cups, axle, shock, clamp and ISGS comes in at 9.06 pounds. The X2 in 210 comes in 666 grams and the DPX2 in 185 at 420 grams, which is a .54 pound difference. That puts the two frames within .1 pound when using the same shock.

I am thinking that Titan and Prime are the same frames and rear triangles, just different linkages. I have emailed Keith to ask, but am not sure if he will (or would want to) confirm or deny my theory. When I compare the two frames geometry with the same fork, they are almost identical except for seattube angle (see attached). It could open up a cool range of possibilities similar to Guerilla Gravity, a single frame that could be 155 or 135 mm travel, with an option for those that want to short stroke their shock on the Titan from 65 to 60 mm for 143mm (what I am naming the Primetan). I am still not sure how short stroking shocks changes the feel, but the cool kids seem to be doing it.

View attachment 1911578
Keith kindly responded to me and said my idea is a no go. He said: "The prime and titan share tubeset for the front triangle… but geometry of front and rear triangles are different, as well as different links. "

I guess the good news is that if you are thinking of going a Titan over a Prime for strength, no need. He also suggested for the prime using 150mm over 160mm on the fork.
 

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I just picked up a new Evo, too. Not immediately in love, but only two rides in. Also have the new Tallboy and definitely in love with that one. Banger little bike.
Ya know....there are a number of people who are making money reviewing less demo bikes on YouTube than you've owned in the past few seasons. You might consider your own channel brother! Just looking out for your wallet! Ha
 

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I have a '21 Stumpjumper EVO now too and although the effective SA on that is steeper the actual is steeper on the Titan. Easy to determine as I took the same dropper and seat from the Titan onto the Evo and had to tilt the saddle down some rather than up if it were steeper.
i had the chance to A/B my prime and the new evo on some trails and the climbing position is very different. Funny that it was easily 5lbs lighter than my prime, but climbing it felt like i had slugs for tires. Banshee really has their geometry down, it makes it difficult for me to want to ride anything else. if i could short shock a phantom to like 100mm and put a 110mm fork on there with a super light build, i could probably race some marathon xc and do well.
 

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i had the chance to A/B my prime and the new evo on some trails and the climbing position is very different. Funny that it was easily 5lbs lighter than my prime, but climbing it felt like i had slugs for tires. Banshee really has their geometry down, it makes it difficult for me to want to ride anything else. if i could short shock a phantom to like 100mm and put a 110mm fork on there with a super light build, i could probably race some marathon xc and do well.
Interesting. I didn't feel the climbing position is all that different between the Titan and '21 Evo, SA was just a bit, like .5 degree slacker. I did size up on the Evo to an S5 (499 reach) vs Titan 470 reach which gave more stack. I think the Evo is pretty amazing so far in that it's quite poppy and agile for a 1300mm wheelbase but obviously stable too. I think Evo needs a pretty exact sag to be good and is sensitive to rider weight over 180 and needs tuning then in at least a bigger volume spacer. Option to change head angle is really cool. I'm running 63.5 right now and love it but only have one ride on fairly mellow but fast terrain.

What tires were on your Prime compared to the Evo? That makes a bigger difference than anything, as you alluded to with slugs for tires.

Anyway both bikes are rad. The weight of the Evo is nice as is the SWAT compartment. The burliness of the Titan's aluminum frame is also nice. I do
 

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Interesting. I didn't feel the climbing position is all that different between the Titan and '21 Evo, SA was just a bit, like .5 degree slacker. I did size up on the Evo to an S5 (499 reach) vs Titan 470 reach which gave more stack. I think the Evo is pretty amazing so far in that it's quite poppy and agile for a 1300mm wheelbase but obviously stable too. I think Evo needs a pretty exact sag to be good and is sensitive to rider weight over 180 and needs tuning then in at least a bigger volume spacer. Option to change head angle is really cool. I'm running 63.5 right now and love it but only have one ride on fairly mellow but fast terrain.

What tires were on your Prime compared to the Evo? That makes a bigger difference than anything, as you alluded to with slugs for tires.

Anyway both bikes are rad. The weight of the Evo is nice as is the SWAT compartment. The burliness of the Titan's aluminum frame is also nice. I do
I had it in the high position with head angle in the middle setting, XL prime vs S5 evo. I weigh right around 180lbs geared up so maybe suspension could've used some more tuning, tires were 2.3" butcher/eliminator Grid on the evo, vs 2.5 vigilante/2.4 trail boss on the prime.
Im starting to think i just dont get along with specialized bikes. i had the last evo in s3 which i couldnt get rid of fast enough, tried the new enduro and dont really get the same impression that everyone gushes about, and then the new evo just wasn't for me. so definitely take my opinions with large grains of salt. I really wanted to like them based on what everyone said about them, and the SWAT would be so handy for me.
 

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I have a 180mm OneUp dropper that is pretty much in as far as it will go. There is about 45mm above the seat clamp showing.

I had a 170mm AXS and I couldn't use it as the insertion wasn't deep enough.
One more question for you, since we're almost the same inseam/height, if you've got the time for it.

What is your "actual" effective top tube with your seat at that height? From the center top of the seat post, to the top of the head tube, and/or center of stems handlebar clamp.

My Kona has both a longer ETT, and a way, way slacker STA 67 degree (actual, with the ESTA at an also slacker 76). I'm curious how much more compact the seated pedaling position is in comparison. And since I can't demo it, random measurements and then estimating where they are while sitting on my current bike may be my only way to guesstimate.

Thanks :).
 

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So, after throwing the kitchen sink at it, I've switched from a 200mm rotor to a brand new 180mm with brand new pads (running Hayes Dominion brakes) and the noise/vibration has gotten better but it's still there. This isn't terribly scientific, since I can't measure the noise and it's an n of 1, but the decreased leverage of the smaller rotor seems to have helped. I've mostly just come to the same conclusion that it's some weird combination of dropout/brake/heavy rider. So, I guess it is what it is, but it sure is frustrating. I love the bike and this is the only remaining issue I have after some other minor niggles in my initial build.
@abeck and others with brake noise issues -- any luck solving this problem? I recently built up a v3 phantom and am having the same issue with loud squawking from the rear brake. I am running dominion a4 with a 180 rotor, semi-metallic pads and the 142 dropouts. Riding in totally dry conditions. I'm having new rims laced up soon, so I hope that will help as the wheels I'm running are old and beat up and probably have pretty inconsistent spoke tension. In the meantime, I'm wondering if some you have found a solution in case the rebuilt wheels don't help. Thanks!
 

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@abeck and others with brake noise issues -- any luck solving this problem? I recently built up a v3 phantom and am having the same issue with loud squawking from the rear brake. I am running dominion a4 with a 180 rotor, semi-metallic pads and the 142 dropouts. Riding in totally dry conditions. I'm having new rims laced up soon, so I hope that will help as the wheels I'm running are old and beat up and probably have pretty inconsistent spoke tension. In the meantime, I'm wondering if some you have found a solution in case the rebuilt wheels don't help. Thanks!
Can't offer a solution as yet but I'm getting the same noise coming from a rear 203mm Hayes rotor running Dominion A4 brakes. I'm using a Magura adaptor and will change to the Hayes version when it arrives...I was hoping that adaptor would have some magical vibration damping qualities..
 

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Can't offer a solution as yet but I'm getting the same noise coming from a rear 203mm Hayes rotor running Dominion A4 brakes. I'm using a Magura adaptor and will change to the Hayes version when it arrives...I was hoping that adaptor would have some magical vibration damping qualities..
Let me know how it goes. I am running a Hayes adapter. New brakes and rotor. Are you using 148 or 142 dropouts? The 142s bend in a little to where the brake adapter screws in and I was wondering if there's a little extra flex that would contribute to vibration/noise.
 

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@abeck and others with brake noise issues -- any luck solving this problem? I recently built up a v3 phantom and am having the same issue with loud squawking from the rear brake. I am running dominion a4 with a 180 rotor, semi-metallic pads and the 142 dropouts. Riding in totally dry conditions. I'm having new rims laced up soon, so I hope that will help as the wheels I'm running are old and beat up and probably have pretty inconsistent spoke tension. In the meantime, I'm wondering if some you have found a solution in case the rebuilt wheels don't help. Thanks!
i was having this problem with magura mt5 with a 180mm rotor and magura adapter in the rear - i switched from stock mt5 brake pads to jagwire semi metallic pads and it seems to have done the trick. i don’t know if they have quite the same stopping power as the 8p i was running before but the vibration was so unnerving that i honestly don’t mind.
 

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Let me know how it goes. I am running a Hayes adapter. New brakes and rotor. Are you using 148 or 142 dropouts? The 142s bend in a little to where the brake adapter screws in and I was wondering if there's a little extra flex that would contribute to vibration/noise.
148 dropouts
 

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anyone riding their banshee in the high dropout position?? i’m having some trouble getting the bike around tight corners with the shorter dropouts. it’s amazing in the straights and the off camber stuff but when i have a really tight technical corner it can feel a bit cumbersome. so much so that i’ve opted to have a smaller back wheel built to run it as a mullet. i probably should’ve tried it with the dropouts in high first but what can you do! had to take it into the shop anyway for a shock warranty issue so i figured why not
 

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What are you proportions if I may ask? Also, you said "just about" perfect. What parts are imperfect?

I'm 6'1" (~185 - 186cm), with pretty long legs. I measure 36.25in from top of pedals to top of saddle in my current riding position.

I see lots of people about my height being happy with a large... but then people like Blatant who loved his large Titan, but felt that the Prime he tried afterwards (which is almost identical in size) was too small. So I'm curious about people on the fence between L and XL.
FWIW, I'm 6'1" with a 33" inseam on a Large Prime with a 160mm Fox 36, 43mm stem, 25mm rise Deity bar and it fits very well. I emailed Keith to ask about sizing prior to purchasing. He said I need a Large unequivocally. If I were to size up, I'd need a shorter stem and it would be much harder to get my weight over the front. This would definitely hurt climbing ability.
 

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anyone riding their banshee in the high dropout position?? i’m having some trouble getting the bike around tight corners with the shorter dropouts. it’s amazing in the straights and the off camber stuff but when i have a really tight technical corner it can feel a bit cumbersome. so much so that i’ve opted to have a smaller back wheel built to run it as a mullet. i probably should’ve tried it with the dropouts in high first but what can you do! had to take it into the shop anyway for a shock warranty issue so i figured why not
Yes. The high position made slow speed maneuvers more manageable, but to me it didn't carve turns as well, and lost a bit of it's devil be damned, downhill prowess.
 

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One more question for you, since we're almost the same inseam/height, if you've got the time for it.

What is your "actual" effective top tube with your seat at that height? From the center top of the seat post, to the top of the head tube, and/or center of stems handlebar clamp.

My Kona has both a longer ETT, and a way, way slacker STA 67 degree (actual, with the ESTA at an also slacker 76). I'm curious how much more compact the seated pedaling position is in comparison. And since I can't demo it, random measurements and then estimating where they are while sitting on my current bike may be my only way to guesstimate.

Thanks :).
Fromt centre top of seat post to centre of bars (50mm stem with 10mm spacer beneath) is 680mm.
 
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