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Prime is closer to the Ripmo in design intent. Ripmo will be lighter and climb better. Prime will be better downhill. Prime is more stable at speed, Ripmo a little more playful. The Ripmo v1 had a **** leverage curve that only worked with small volume air shocks. Prime can run just about any shock and make it work.

The one bike solution is very difficult to pull off, you're almost always making a trade-off somewhere. You can ride a Prime at the bike park but 135mm of (really good) travel can only do so much. Titan, like most 150+ bikes, just aren't fun on flat mellow trails.
 

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Pulled the trigger on a L Raw Titan. How is the included headset?
 

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The stock headset is OK, make sure you fit the bearings the correct way around. I picked up a spare SS sealed bearing for the lower cup but haven't needed it yet.
 

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Stock headset is fine. Mine has been going strong through very nasty PNW weather. I always pack my headset bearings with extra grease, seems to have done the trick with this one too.
 

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Prime is closer to the Ripmo in design intent. Ripmo will be lighter and climb better. Prime will be better downhill. Prime is more stable at speed, Ripmo a little more playful. The Ripmo v1 had a **** leverage curve that only worked with small volume air shocks. Prime can run just about any shock and make it work.

The one bike solution is very difficult to pull off, you're almost always making a trade-off somewhere. You can ride a Prime at the bike park but 135mm of (really good) travel can only do so much. Titan, like most 150+ bikes, just aren't fun on flat mellow trails.
Not gonna lie, prime with a coil is very very close to one bike solution. Climbs very good but doesn't give up much (if anything) on the descents. still plenty playful and poppy. I've found the limit a couple of times but i wouldn't go titan for my daily driver unless i lived in like downieville.
 

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Not gonna lie, prime with a coil is very very close to one bike solution. Climbs very good but doesn't give up much (if anything) on the descents. still plenty playful and poppy. I've found the limit a couple of times but i wouldn't go titan for my daily driver unless i lived in like downieville.
I think you might be on the money here. I have a Titan and my wife has a Phantom and the Prime sits somewhere inbetween. I've been on the Phantom the past few rides and I've been super surprised how capable it is. The back end definitely provides more feedback than the Titan (DPX2 v EXT coil) but with that comes a nimbleness the Titan cannot match. A coiled Prime could be the perfect balance of everything.
 

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Almost there......
Large Titan frame
Ext Coil
Fox 36 Push'd
Enve M735 Chris King wheelset
Canfield cranks
Renthal cockpit 800 bars 33mm stem
Hayes Dominion A4 brakes on the way

FWIW the rear tire is a 2.6 WTB Trail Boss and it fits

Pretty fired up to check her out!
20210109_172906.jpg
 

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I've been anxiously waiting for that review. I really value the NSMB articles.

That said... I'm now just anxiously awaiting the second half, as this first half reads more like "yes, we have a titan in review, and it sure can do lots of stuff", rather than a full proper review.

One thing I did find interesting, was that he specifically calls out that he sized based on ETT, rather than reach. I "think" between the L and XL in sizing, but its really hard to confirm without being able to test ride/demo one.
 

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I've been anxiously waiting for that review. I really value the NSMB articles.

That said... I'm now just anxiously awaiting the second half, as this first half reads more like "yes, we have a titan in review, and it sure can do lots of stuff", rather than a full proper review.

One thing I did find interesting, was that he specifically calls out that he sized based on ETT, rather than reach. I "think" between the L and XL in sizing, but its really hard to confirm without being able to test ride/demo one.
I have also been anxiously awaiting the review, and was also a little disappointed. I commented on the article there too, but I don't really agree with his decision to go with the large when he should have likely been on the medium. Reach and stack play together, and the reach and stack on the large have me quite happy as someone who used to ride a significantly longer reach but lower stack bike. I also don't share his issues with climbing the bike at all, and it's another issue I suspect may come down to his questionable sizing choice, but I recognize difference in opinion may be at play too.

EDIT: I said some overly negative things here about NSMB that I regret in hindsight, especially because my phrasing was overly harsh, which I’ve removed. I do appreciate those guys as my go-to website, even if I don’t agree with their findings on occasion.
 

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I have also been anxiously awaiting the review, and was also a little disappointed. I commented on the article there too, but I don't really agree with his decision to go with the large when he should have likely been on the medium. Reach and stack play together, and the reach and stack on the large have me quite happy as someone who used to ride a significantly longer reach but lower stack bike. I also don't share his issues with climbing the bike at all, and it's another issue I suspect may come down to his questionable sizing choice.

In general I struggle a bit with taking Andrew's reviews seriously, or at least taking them as something that will be reflective of my own experience. AJ Barlas @ NSMB has posted reviews that are much more in-line with my experiences, riding style and preferences, whereas Andrew seems to be very into the tech which I appreciate, but also fairly odd in his bike preferences and riding style. Makes it a bit harder to relate to him as a reviewer sometimes.
Yeah I have to agree, I think he should be on a medium. I'm 185cm and the large is just about perfect. I also ride a medium Phantom occasionally and whilst that feels slightly small it's fine until I want to go super steep.
 

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It is interesting that his frame with headset cups, axle, shock, and seatpost clamp weighs 9.52 pounds (doesn't say if it includes the ISGS adaptor that weighs .056 pounds). My Prime v3 raw in large with the DPX2, headset cups, axle, shock, clamp and ISGS comes in at 9.06 pounds. The X2 in 210 comes in 666 grams and the DPX2 in 185 at 420 grams, which is a .54 pound difference. That puts the two frames within .1 pound when using the same shock.

I am thinking that Titan and Prime are the same frames and rear triangles, just different linkages. I have emailed Keith to ask, but am not sure if he will (or would want to) confirm or deny my theory. When I compare the two frames geometry with the same fork, they are almost identical except for seattube angle (see attached). It could open up a cool range of possibilities similar to Guerilla Gravity, a single frame that could be 155 or 135 mm travel, with an option for those that want to short stroke their shock on the Titan from 65 to 60 mm for 143mm (what I am naming the Primetan). I am still not sure how short stroking shocks changes the feel, but the cool kids seem to be doing it.

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It's also interesting that he isn't getting along with the float x2, even going so far as to suggest that the dpx2 would be a better option stock, which made me laugh out loud.
Do all the new Titans shipping out come with the 2021 version of the shock? and is everyone feeling the same way about those shocks?

@Cary that would be cool, i would be interested in a lighter duty Prime for a few months out of the year and then a burly Titan the rest of the time.
 

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It's also interesting that he isn't getting along with the float x2, even going so far as to suggest that the dpx2 would be a better option stock, which made me laugh out loud.
Do all the new Titans shipping out come with the 2021 version of the shock? and is everyone feeling the same way about those shocks?

@Cary that would be cool, i would be interested in a lighter duty Prime for a few months out of the year and then a burly Titan the rest of the time.
I have not found a Fox rear shock that I get along with out of the box. The one I had rebuilt by Avalanche worked well. I felt the same way about their forks, the last one I had was a Fit 4 34 on my hardtail that I even put the evol in to help and it still felt like crap. When we bought my son's Ibis DV9 with the base Rhythm 34 and Grip, I expected more of the same. To my surprise the thing feels great. Maybe the issue with Fox is their top of the line stuff isn't great, the entry level is what works.
 

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Yeah I have to agree, I think he should be on a medium. I'm 185cm and the large is just about perfect. I also ride a medium Phantom occasionally and whilst that feels slightly small it's fine until I want to go super steep.
What are you proportions if I may ask? Also, you said "just about" perfect. What parts are imperfect?

I'm 6'1" (~185 - 186cm), with pretty long legs. I measure 36.25in from top of pedals to top of saddle in my current riding position.

I see lots of people about my height being happy with a large... but then people like Blatant who loved his large Titan, but felt that the Prime he tried afterwards (which is almost identical in size) was too small. So I'm curious about people on the fence between L and XL.
 

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I have not found a Fox rear shock that I get along with out of the box. The one I had rebuilt by Avalanche worked well. I felt the same way about their forks, the last one I had was a Fit 4 34 on my hardtail that I even put the evol in to help and it still felt like crap. When we bought my son's Ibis DV9 with the base Rhythm 34 and Grip, I expected more of the same. To my surprise the thing feels great. Maybe the issue with Fox is their top of the line stuff isn't great, the entry level is what works.
the dpx2 that came on my prime was acceptable for park-type trails. but i bought a factory dhx2 for it and it really brought the bike to life. i have never gotten along with dpx2's that came stock on frames, but i've always had good luck with aftermarket fox shocks. i was just hoping the performance float x2 would be similar to the ones ive owned in the past.
 

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What are you proportions if I may ask? Also, you said "just about" perfect. What parts are imperfect?

I'm 6'1" (~185 - 186cm), with pretty long legs. I measure 36.25in from top of pedals to top of saddle in my current riding position.

I see lots of people about my height being happy with a large... but then people like Blatant who loved his large Titan, but felt that the Prime he tried afterwards (which is almost identical in size) was too small. So I'm curious about people on the fence between L and XL.
37" from pedals to saddle for me @ 185cm tall.

I'd like the chainstay to be 5mm shorter and the seat tube insertion to allow a longer dropper then it would an even closer almost perfect (nothing is perfect).

Comparing the large Titan to the XL Prime is closer than large to large. The front centre of the XL Prime is 10mm larger (than large Titan) vs 18mm smaller on the large. The front/rear balance ratio on the XL Prime is 1.82 vs the large at 1.76 (large Titan 1.8)

Small differences but I guess some can feel it.
 

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37" from pedals to saddle for me @ 185cm tall.

I'd like the chainstay to be 5mm shorter and the seat tube insertion to allow a longer dropper then it would an even closer almost perfect (nothing is perfect).

Comparing the large Titan to the XL Prime is closer than large to large. The front centre of the XL Prime is 10mm larger (than large Titan) vs 18mm smaller on the large. The front/rear balance ratio on the XL Prime is 1.82 vs the large at 1.76 (large Titan 1.8)

Small differences but I guess some can feel it.
Thanks for the response. Sounds like we're pretty close in proportions then.

Looking at the specs, I have had the same worry about the dropper post insertion depth (particularly on the XL). What size/type of dropper are you using, and how much do you have exposed above the clamp if I can ask? And agreed no bike is perfect. The Banshee is still totally on my radar. Its geo is just different enough that its hard to find anything even close to its geo, while lots of other bikes you can often find a fairly similar geo to at least sit on (ie, Privateer 141/161, Transition Sentinel and Norco Sight have very similar angles and measurements to each other, and the last two are common enough that you might be able to guess at Privateers frame sizing... not so on the Banshee).

The front center differences between the bikes shouldn't affect bike fit though right? Front center is also a function of head tube angle (because its based on wheelbase), which is why I'm i'm not sure that fitment would feel different. Totally agree that it would affect the weight balance though.

Thanks again :).
 

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I have not found a Fox rear shock that I get along with out of the box. The one I had rebuilt by Avalanche worked well. I felt the same way about their forks, the last one I had was a Fit 4 34 on my hardtail that I even put the evol in to help and it still felt like crap. When we bought my son's Ibis DV9 with the base Rhythm 34 and Grip, I expected more of the same. To my surprise the thing feels great. Maybe the issue with Fox is their top of the line stuff isn't great, the entry level is what works.
Haha, i just saw a post on @JohnnyC7 /suspensionlab instagram with a dyno chart of this Performance X2 showing how little compression damping it had.
 

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Thanks for the response. Sounds like we're pretty close in proportions then.

Looking at the specs, I have had the same worry about the dropper post insertion depth (particularly on the XL). What size/type of dropper are you using, and how much do you have exposed above the clamp if I can ask? And agreed no bike is perfect. The Banshee is still totally on my radar. Its geo is just different enough that its hard to find anything even close to its geo, while lots of other bikes you can often find a fairly similar geo to at least sit on (ie, Privateer 141/161, Transition Sentinel and Norco Sight have very similar angles and measurements to each other, and the last two are common enough that you might be able to guess at Privateers frame sizing... not so on the Banshee).

The front center differences between the bikes shouldn't affect bike fit though right? Front center is also a function of head tube angle (because its based on wheelbase), which is why I'm i'm not sure that fitment would feel different. Totally agree that it would affect the weight balance though.

Thanks again :).
To your dropper Q, I'm running a 170mm PNW Bachelor, which doesn't have the lowest stack ever, and with about 1.5" of space above the post clamp before the threaded seal head assembly on the post. I could go about a half inch lower into the frame without running out of space. With something shorter like the OneUp post, I bet I could just barely run a 200mm post.

I had an alloy Sentinel before my Titan, which was 15mm longer reach. Ran a 40mm stem on that bike, running 50mm on my Titan, and fit really isn't that much different. The Titan has tall stack, so feels bigger than the reach would imply.
 
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