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I'm more of a dog person
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok so after waiting for the cold weather to slow down my riding enough for me to break down the bike, I take the frame in to have it powder coated last Friday. After picking the two colors the owner tells me that he doesn't think he has enough of the color (candy orange) for the front triangle in stock so he had to order some. Because of this he said that I would not have the bike back for at least a week or more, which I told him I had no problem with. Monday after noon I get a call from the shop to say the frame is ready for pickup, a whole week ahead of time. Acting more out of excitement than anything, I hurried over to pick up the frame after work before I had to pick up my daughter from soccer. As I was leaving, the shop apprentice mentioned to me that if I see some different shades of orange on the frame in the sunlight that its "just the nature of the color I chose". Once home I had a chance to examine and admire the frame and I noticed what I feel are some glaring defects. The front portion of the seat tube between the BB and TT looks to have almost no top coat (the translucent orange gloss coat). Other areas of the frame have too much top coat and are noticeably too dark. Now I'm no expert on powder coating, which is actually why I'm posting this, but as I understand it, most "candy" colors consist of a silver base coat and colored gloss coat. Knowing this I assume that if you run out of this colored top coat before the frame is finished you would have areas of inconsistency in the final product of varying degrees.

What I'm getting at with this long winded story is I believe this guy decided to try and paint my frame with the amount of powder he had in stock, ran out before he coated the whole thing, and is passing if off as "normal for this color". So I need some advice from some powder guys on whether this guys is being honest with me about the candy paint or is he just trying cover up his screw up? And possibly more importantly, can too many (or even just more than one) repowderings of an aluminum frame start to do damage, if I were to pursue it? I will try and post some better pics of the frame in daylight in a day or two.
 

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Looks normal to me. The only spot it looks thin is on the seat tube area, but I would say that it was due to the flash. Powdercoat has obvious thin spots if not done right. If the color is uniform, it is okay.
 

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Bike Dork
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Yep, too thin. Schmucker look closer to the second pic the flash is really on the DT and you can compare to what flash looks like ST. The housing guides are difficult to see, but they may be alright in normal light though I'm guessing not.

Most candy colors start with a base color with a second transparent color over the top. Getting the transparent layer right is really hard sometimes, though usually it's in the joints and gussets area, not on the tube itself. I've painted maybe two dozen candy frames and the first 4-5 I needed to do it twice.

Better pics without a flash would be better.
 

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turtles make me hot
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Powder should go on uniformly. It sticks to the frame via opposite electric charges. If it looks thin, that's because it is.

Do you glass bead the frame prior to powdercoating? I've never had good luck getting smooth metal coated. It never sticks like it should.
 

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I'm more of a dog person
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
its not the flash

yeah like i said i'm gonna try to get some better pics in the daylight tomorrow without the flash, but it's def not the flash causing it because you can see it plain as day in person. my bigger concern is if i'd be doing any damage to the frame if i had him repowder it due to the repeated baking of the aluminum.
 

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I'm more of a dog person
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
i don't know about glass bead (or what that even is), but he blasted the original paint off (yes paint, not powder) and apparently used a silver bottom coat before the candy gloss. at least thats how he explained it to me.
 

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Just too thin, that is all. Powder has to be evenly applied, just as wet paint. No magic there. I will say that it can be really tough to get an even coat everywhere on a frame. Especially if you are not really experienced with bicycle frames or small tubes.

I wouldn't really think he ran out of translucent powder, just that someone didn't apply it quite right. It is probably just as durable so it is cosmetic. Up to you if you want to have it stripped and do it over again.

Dave Bohm
Bohemian Bicycles
 

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unclekittykiller said:
the owner tells me that he doesn't think he has enough of the color...
said that I would not have the bike back for at least a week or more, which I told him I had no problem with...
frame is ready for pickup, a whole week ahead of time.

As I was leaving, the shop apprentice mentioned to me that if I see some different shades of orange on the frame in the sunlight that its "just the nature of the color I chose".

Once home I had a chance to examine and admire the frame and I noticed what I feel are some glaring defects.
That bold part would piss me off - they KNOW that they didn't do it right. There is no hiding it.
Sure, my Grinch Green ventana "changes color" in the sunlight, but quite evenly as you move the bike around you can see that everything is even. I have a feeling that your paint is too thin there, like others have stated.

The question you should ask is whether you trust this shop to get it right.
 

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I'm more of a dog person
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
CharacterZero said:
That bold part would piss me off - they KNOW that they didn't do it right. There is no hiding it.
Sure, my Grinch Green ventana "changes color" in the sunlight, but quite evenly as you move the bike around you can see that everything is even. I have a feeling that your paint is too thin there, like others have stated.

The question you should ask is whether you trust this shop to get it right.
yeah that's exactly what is pissing me off. i'm sure that they knew it wasn't done right and they are trying to play me for a fool. when i took the frame there originally they said that they powder bike frames "all the time". there was even another customer's frame waiting to be picked up in the office when i arrived.
 

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Bike Dork
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You know it's posts like this that make me know I can't get my powdercoat booth up and running soon enough, and sadly I'm still at least a year out on getting it running. There is only one bike specific powdercoater that I know of Spectrum Powder Works and though I know of a few horror stories 99.9% of the bike frames that come out of their shop are dynamite. I know tons of folks that do liquid paint, but very few that do powder even on their own builds.
 

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themanmonkey said:
You know it's posts like this that make me know I can't get my powdercoat booth up and running soon enough, and sadly I'm still at least a year out on getting it running. There is only one bike specific powdercoater that I know of Spectrum Powder Works and though I know of a few horror stories 99.9% of the bike frames that come out of their shop are dynamite. I know tons of folks that do liquid paint, but very few that do powder even on their own builds.
Hi Brandon,

I have thought a lot about this....That is powder vs. wet. We could spend hours discussing it but I guess what I want to say mainly that although both have advantages and disadvantages I am a little perplexed by the question of why people want powder so much? Surely it's usually less expensive (not always) it is slightly more environmentally friendly (not much) but in my experience it is not tougher than a really good epoxy primer, SS polyurethane. It offers less corrosion resistance and no one can argue that you cannot do anything near as custom as well. No dis to spectrum as they are the kinds of powder and do mind blowing stuff. Still, nowhere close to what I can do with wet.

For just your basic one color jober at a low cost it is tough to beat but when guys go and get "candies" and such I just don't see the advantages.

It is interesting though. Powder has a lower entry price than wet so you would think there would be more in house guys doing it. It might be hard to compete with those local outfits who IMHO literally give away there services.

Dave Bohm
Bohemian Bicycles
 

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CharacterZero said:
That bold part would piss me off - they KNOW that they didn't do it right. There is no hiding it.
Sure, my Grinch Green ventana "changes color" in the sunlight, but quite evenly as you move the bike around you can see that everything is even. I have a feeling that your paint is too thin there, like others have stated.

The question you should ask is whether you trust this shop to get it right.
Are you seriously comparing your Ventana to this bike :rolleyes:
The quality of the 2 powdercoat jobs could not be more different .

First off VENDOR : the vendor who does the powder-coat job is the most important and I can clearly see inconsistencies from this bike vs what the vendor who did the Ventana frames ( FYI: same vendor still powder-coats my frames ) and this bike pictured .

First off there is a HUGE light spot on the seat-tube , this could or could not be frame lack of powder , they could have just sprayed it lightly in this section .
I'l also look over the entire bike for dust particles in the paint on the undercoat .

If it was me I'd have the frame stripped and re-done on the shops dime but if they coulnt get the job done right the first time what makes you believe they can do it right given a second chance ?
To me it's perfect the first time or No joy !
Good luck
 

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CharacterZero said:
Heh, I was not. I was simply providing input on the "color changing in direct sunlight" statement.
2 completely different powder-coat process .

Grinch green is a 3 coat process with a silver base , color clear and a clear hard top coat

The OP's bike is standard chrome base with trans orange , a very simple basic powdercoat job at that .

The powder-coat will only change coloring sunlight if there is some sort of base coast to add depth or if there is a special metallic or reflective top coat clear used .
 

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Evil4bc said:
2 completely different powder-coat process .

Grinch green is a 3 coat process with a silver base , color clear and a clear hard top coat

The OP's bike is standard chrome base with trans orange , a very simple basic powdercoat job at that .

The powder-coat will only change coloring sunlight of there is some sort of base coast to add depth or if there is a special metallic or reflective top coat clear used .
Thanks for the schoolin'. OP, sorry, but disregard what I said about color changing in different lights, Evil4bc is the man to go to for that information.
 

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I'm more of a dog person
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
update

i went over to the PC shop today at lunch and talked to them about my concerns regarding the inconsistencies. They again stated that particular color and another transparent gold color are the 2 that they have problems with (would have been nice to know that from the begining). they also said that they will be discontinuing use of this color now due to customer complaints. anyway, they said they would redo it for me no problem since i'm not happy. i could have it redone the same color and see if it comes out better, or choose any of their other stock colors. I could also choose from their special order colors but I would have to pay for the powder.

I'm not going to redo the frame in the same color cause I don't want the same thing to happen again so I'm gonna choose another color. Just sucks cause i really liked that color. Nothing else he has in stock is really catching my eye so not sure which direction I'm gonna go yet.
 

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CharacterZero said:
Thanks for the schoolin'. OP, sorry, but disregard what I said about color changing in different lights, Evil4bc is the man to go to for that information.
Thank you :) :thumbsup:

I do tend to pride myself on my ability to produce some of the baddest powder-coat color combo's out there . If there are any manufactures , or customer who would like some advise on color combo's , technique and powder coat process please feel free to Email or PM me .

The powdercoat vendor I work with is MAAS Brothers in Livermoore California , these guys are the best hands down . It's their quality work that allows my mad scientist color mixes to work !

CharacterZero :
Here a good example of color that change in different light conditions listed from top to bottom
First color : diacrylic purple
second : Dupont Amber Illusion
Third : Custom color similar to grinch green , cept this one glows in the dark !!!


OP: I just read your response ... WTF !
the powder-coat shop is giving you the standard line , Oh your not happy well that due to the powder NOT us , BullFreekinSh!T it cus the guy who sprayed your bike doesn't have gun control .
YES Trans gold and Trans ornage like EVERY OTHER trans color tend to run I know this as 98% of my frames and bars get Trans colors straight over raw metal and we have to prep the material in a special way then clean it with a heavy solvent that will most deffintly give me liver cancer later on.
If the orignal vendor was worth 2cents as a powdercoat shop they would have already figured out that it's requires 2 light spray coats over the chrome base along with some other little secret's I'm not posting on the web , not one heavy one with light spots :nono:

I might consider asking for your money back + a extra $50 for stripping
If you want to send me the bike I can take it too MASS for you and get this taken care of the right way for you .

My coast to hadle this job would be :

STRIP FEE $50 have the orignal shop cover this and tell them your letting em off easy by not sending them a bill for the entire retail value for the bike !

Powdercoat : my cost on a 2 process job with chrome base and tras orange for a 2 parts frame is $150

If you can get the frame shipped to me I can handle this for you , granted this is at my cost so I'm not making any profit on this call it my MTBR good deep .

Thanks
Brad
Nemesis Project cycles
 
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