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i dont know if any of u remember but about a month ago 3 riders ran a horse off the cold springs trail!!!!! yea well i thought this thing was over and the lady just dropped it.but no she has a three page aticle in the monecito journal.this lady seems very pissed and she is now taking this issue threw the congress !!!! i think she will make this happen because 1. the bikers told her "its not our fault it urs u shouldnt have ur horse on the trail we helped u up the hill what more can we do!!and then left" she exp[lain that these riders were "reckless,callous,and defensive"she has a lot of good witnesses and lawyer!! i sure hope that these trails dont get closed for bikers and mabe they will make new ones for horses and hikers.
 

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oh, and BTW, there are few experiences more joyful than trying to drive through SB before a holiday weekend. I guess the people of SB feel that opening more lanes would be environmentally unfriendly, so instead they have cars snarled in miles of traffic releasing their toxic fumes into the environment. Idiots.
 

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From my understanding the only thing that was out of control was the horse. Riders should slow down and try to accomadate folks but if she wants to get legal about it, then bike advokates need to get across the understanding that the only reason anything like this happens is becasue horses are dangerously skittish animals and easily get out of control, especially when not trailed thouroughly. If anything should be relegated to its own trails it should be horses. I had an incedent recently where a horse nearly went out of control because I was coming up on it. Luckily for the horses owner, she was not riding it at the time because it reared up. This all happened while I was 30 feet away rolling up about as fast as a fat person jogs. As far as we know the bikers in this incedent could have been going reasonably slow also. Accomadating everyone who wants to use the trails is a nice idea but if anything, the horses are the #1 problem. #2 has to be wreckless bikers. I guess hikers are pretty blameless. But what is so acceptable about a 500 pound animal that gets easily out of control around others and could kill you if it kicked?
 

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bullit71 said:
Good luck, and if you see a Santa Barbarian, make sure you flip them off and spit on them when you do!
You could not possibly have said anything more asinine. Please go find another sport. I don't want you in mine. Ever thought about street luge? You can grow a mustache and drink mountain dew and do the "extreme scream".

Whatever you do, just please go play in traffic.
 

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Beyond that...

RobsterCraw said:
From my understanding the only thing that was out of control was the horse. Riders should slow down and try to accomadate folks but if she wants to get legal about it, then bike advokates need to get across the understanding that the only reason anything like this happens is becasue horses are dangerously skittish animals and easily get out of control, especially when not trailed thouroughly. If anything should be relegated to its own trails it should be horses. I had an incedent recently where a horse nearly went out of control because I was coming up on it. Luckily for the horses owner, she was not riding it at the time because it reared up. This all happened while I was 30 feet away rolling up about as fast as a fat person jogs. As far as we know the bikers in this incedent could have been going reasonably slow also. Accomadating everyone who wants to use the trails is a nice idea but if anything, the horses are the #1 problem. #2 has to be wreckless bikers. I guess hikers are pretty blameless. But what is so acceptable about a 500 pound animal that gets easily out of control around others and could kill you if it kicked?
One thing I've never understood is how others complain how mountain bikers are bad for trails,etc, yet I've had to ride through miles of hoove prints that eat up every bit of my 6" travel moutain bike, alll the while trying to dodge enormous mounds of horse crap that inevitably gets into my tires tread and flies all over the place. How is that good for trails? I won't even go into the details for my hiking experience in Yosemite that included miles are cars snarled in massive traffic jams, hiking along beautiful trails strewn with trash, holding my nose after passing some human sh!t, and people hiking on trails, off trails, making their own trails etc.

Seems mountain bikers are some of the better people to enjoy the trails, no?
 

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bullit71 said:
I hate Santa Barbara. Bullit71
Get a clue dude. People with attitudes like yours are the problem. Grow up
 

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Delete This!!!!!

This thread was Deleted yesterday by the Mod. Please delete it again. This does not help the sit.

ya "bullit71" I've lived in SB all my life. Come and spit at me, and then your dentist is going to have some work to do.

And the real prob. is not Santa Barbara it's all the people that live in Montecito.
 

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bullit71 said:
One thing I've never understood is how others complain how mountain bikers are bad for trails,etc, yet I've had to ride through miles of hoove prints that eat up every bit of my 6" travel moutain bike, alll the while trying to dodge enormous mounds of horse crap that inevitably gets into my tires tread and flies all over the place. How is that good for trails? I won't even go into the details for my hiking experience in Yosemite that included miles are cars snarled in massive traffic jams, hiking along beautiful trails strewn with trash, holding my nose after passing some human sh!t, and people hiking on trails, off trails, making their own trails etc.

Seems mountain bikers are some of the better people to enjoy the trails, no?
Well this mainly comes from two specific mentalities in the environmental mind. The first is that horses are Ok because they are animals. We know that that isn't entirely true, horses will chop up a wet trail way worse than any bike. I'm no expert but I think horse crap is also saturated with nutrients (like dog poo) and makes for a biohazard if it gets in the run off. All things in moderation and there usually isn't a problem. The second thing is errosion. enviros worry a lot about errosion and there is this old philosophy of preservation, keeping everything the same. But errosion is a natural process and the landscape is always changing. The better thinking is to minimize the human ecological "footprint." Enviros don't like bikes becasue they think we cause the most errosion. I haven't seen any definitive evidence of this. I do know that badly made steep trails can be problematic, and the making of new trails causes far more errosion than the use of existing ones. The enviros are right about one thing, we do have an environmental impact, but I think they overestimate it. They would fare far better by working with us rather than against us. I am enviro too but I tend to feel that bikes are the least of the worries. And bikes can be a strong ally when hikers, hippies, and horse people are working to keep an area from being developed or deforested. If they kick us out, do you think we are gonna give a ****? No.
 

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RobsterCraw said:
I guess hikers are pretty blameless. But what is so acceptable about a 500 pound animal that gets easily out of control around others and could kill you if it kicked?
We have actually had good relations around here with the Equestrians. We get off the trail and let the horse go by and the people are very appreciative when we let them pass. In the local advocacy meetings with the county, it's the hiker group that wants MT bikes off the trails and they are trying to pull the equestrians to their side. It was great to hear the equestrians stick up for multiple use (hiking, horses, & biking) when the hikers said that they only wanted to ban bikes and not horses from our local trails. It would have been easy for them to agree with the hikers and say "yes, lets ban the bikes". That would have made it 2 user groups against one. At one of the meetings about a month ago, a staff member presented a report where they concluded that all 3 user groups had approximately the same amount of impact, yet in different ways. The hiker group was not blameless because of all 3 groups, they were found most likely to go off the trail and trample vegetation, etc. Mountain bikes were damaging by skidding on downhills, horses were the worst (due to the huge weight ?) in muddy situations. But, the point being, around here, is that no one user group is the "devil" and no one user group is blameless. Interesting that there is one group (the hikers) around here that looks at itself as being perfect and they MTB's are the Devil and would admit to no wrongdoing. Sorry if this thread was meant to die..... :rolleyes:
 

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sorry, but....

The only thing I hear that comes from those who post from that city is how their trails are either a.being closed, or b.threating to be closed. I'm sick of it. Having been in and around that city for 30+ years has me bitter about the whole place. I don't understand why you guys that live and ride there don't get fired up about what's going on there? You're losing all of your trails!

Fine. Delete the thread. You will lose your trails, and will have to go elsewhere. All is fine.

BTW, yes, the spitting thing was over the top, and I didn't mean it literally. But the anger I feel towards those that think they own natures trails for their use only is infuriating. I wonder if the day will come when the only places that we will be able to ride are enclosed mountain bike parks, where we will have to pay to play.
 

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man w/ one hand said:
If I had a kid or dog that acted the way horses & horse riders act, I would be banned from riding public trails. If I, my kid or my dog squated in the trail & took a dump or if I, my kid or my dog went bezerk on a hiker I would end up banned from the trails or in court.

I was recently bitten, (Lake Norman State Park, NC), by a dog on a leash being held back by the owner after I rode by. Bit me on my waist line on my left hip. 2 puncture wounds. The owners apologized profusely, swore the dog had its shots then asked what they could do....I said "have a good day", couldv'e burnt'em a new one but didn't. My riding bud said "DANG MAN, you could'a got us both a new bike". Took over a month to heal. No I didn't go to a doc. just kept it clean & medicated. Actually it was aman & his wife w/2 weimeraners. The mans bit me after I passed him, almost knocked me off my bike.

About 10% of the horse owners I have encountered tend to act like they own any area they happen to be riding in, & treat you, (bike riders), as though you are threatening their very lives. They are the ones riding an unpredictable animal. They are the ones that need to be riding "horse only" designated trails. Unfortunately, they also have the $$$ & thats what gets results in court. The bike community as whole won't stand united. The riders, companies, & families of riders are so fragmented it is unreal. The biking community is not as big as the horse riders, so we have to have everyone hanging together through the tough stuff to have a loud enough voice. There are way too many immature attitudes in the bike community & it kills our credibility.
I'm from Charlotte, and used to go to Lake Norman quite a bit. Great place!
 

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If I had a kid or dog that acted the way horses & horse riders act, I would be banned from riding public trails. If I, my kid or my dog squated in the trail & took a dump or if I, my kid or my dog went bezerk on a hiker I would end up banned from the trails or in court.

I was recently bitten, (Lake Norman State Park, NC), by a dog on a leash being held back by the owner after I rode by. Bit me on my waist line on my left hip. 2 puncture wounds. The owners apologized profusely, swore the dog had its shots then asked what they could do....I said "have a good day", couldv'e burnt'em a new one but didn't. My riding bud said "DANG MAN, you could'a got us both a new bike". Took over a month to heal. No I didn't go to a doc. just kept it clean & medicated. Actually it was aman & his wife w/2 weimeraners. The mans bit me after I passed him, almost knocked me off my bike.

About 10% of the horse owners I have encountered tend to act like they own any area they happen to be riding in, & treat you, (bike riders), as though you are threatening their very lives. They are the ones riding an unpredictable animal. They are the ones that need to be riding "horse only" designated trails. Unfortunately, they also have the $$$ & thats what gets results in court. The bike community as whole won't stand united. The riders, companies, & families of riders are so fragmented it is unreal. The biking community is not as big as the horse riders, so we have to have everyone hanging together through the tough stuff to have a loud enough voice. There are way too many immature attitudes in the bike community & it kills our credibility.
 

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Alright guys...

If we can get past my initial outburst against SB, which was in anger right after reading some rich Lady is going to Congress to ban our sport again, as if she alone owns those trails, let's think about a few things....I'm going to brainstorm here a bit:

We know that hiker and horses have lots of $$$. Why is that? Typically, and I emphasize TYPICALLY, when I'm riding my bike past hikers, I notice that hikers tend to be an older crowd, probably fairly successful by that age, which, after years of working and building up a nest egg, probably have some decent money laying around by then. That is NOT to say that younger ppl don't hike, or older ppl don't mountain bike, BUT I generally don't see groups of teens and young college crowds going around hiking. Horseback riders have money by default to be in the sport at all. Horses are what, 10k? Plus paying for land to store them one, etc....So plenty of money there. Hikers are big-time united by clubs like Sierra, Backpacking, etc.

Mountain bikers? Generally younger crowd, right? Teens, college students, etc make up a large portion of our sport. Too young to have much money, or paying for school, etc. I don't see many older guys with beards and tons of cash in their bank accounts ripping the trails.

Money buys political leaders, Congress dictates trail use. There ya go. We are in trouble.

Look, it's unfortunate that it seems to be an 'us-against-them' thing, but aren't they the ones closing all of the trails to mountain bikers? I like hiking, I like horses. I don't have anything against either of those sports. What I DO have a problem with is them banning us from those trails. It's not fair, and they have all the money.

So what can we do to help our biking brethren in SB? How can we help keep those trails open?

Perhaps one of you guys there can post the phone numbers and email addresses on this thread for us to write to or call? That would be a GREAT start. Let's start a new thread that titled 'Help mtn bikers in SB!' and post it in all of the different forums here at mtbr.com and ridemonkey.com, pinkbike.com etc! Let's start emailing the crap out of the politicians in SB.

Come on guys, LET"S UNITE!!! Not bicker amongst ourselves!
 

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bullit71 said:
I'm from Charlotte, and used to go to Lake Norman quite a bit. Great place!
The only reason I say to delete this, is because last time this thread went up people were talk mad Shi!. Then I go to the SB Trail Web Site and they had a link back To MTBR saying look at what all the bikers are saying about us. Then they print out the web page and bring it to the meetings with all your Stupid Dumb Quotes. This is no Good!!

Plus what do you care about are trails getting closed down. You don't like it here.
 

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#1 puleeze!

#1ORBUST said:
The only reason I say to delete this, is because last time this thread went up people were talk mad Shi!. Then I go to the SB Trail Web Site and they had a link back To MTBR saying look at what all the bikers are saying about us. Then they print out the web page and bring it to the meetings with all your Stupid Dumb Quotes. This is no Good!!

Plus what do you care about are trails getting closed down. You don't like it here.
You're not still mad at my initial response, r u? ;) Yes you are right, we certainly don't need to give anyone any material for their meetings,etc. So if the mod's here can delete my initial response, we'll be well on our way.

In fact, let's keep the ugly stories of hikers and horses to a minimum here. Instead, let's brainstorm on how we can help the poor guys there that want to keep mtn biking.

Look, I love the beauty of SB, the great bars on State St., Tunnel Trail!! But, I have a hard time with some of the attitudes of the ppl there, especially when it comes to natures trails (and the above mentioned things), and I will continue to visit family there and bring my bike when I do visit. So let's try to keep these trails open!

OK, so the situation is this - some guy rode around a corner or something, and scared a horse, and it died. That is NOT good. I feel terrible for the animal, and for the owner and the mtn biker that accidentally caused the situation. Now we have a pissed off rich horse owner that is going to the lawmakers to ban us.

If one lady goes to congress, and then the congressperson got bombarded with tons of mail and calls to keep the trail open, who wins out? She may have money, but it doesn't cost us much to call and write.

Can anyone find out who the congressperson is that will hear her case? Can we get some emails? Phone numbers?

A good start I think.
 

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Yes, delete this thread. I live in western NC and horses are very common on the trails in certain areas. Complaining about a problem will not solve anything. IMO the bikerider and the horse rider were both at fault. It would be unfortunate for people in the SB area to lose trail access due to this incident. Hopefully nothing bad will come of this for mountain bikers in that area.
 
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