[donkey]

Banks brought this up a while back, so I figured I would call WTB and see if there was any news on the availability of the folding nano's and moto's.

Basically they told me this: They will only be selling wire beaded 29er tires until they get the "bead problems" worked out. They also acknowledged that the "bead problem" is people using them with a notubes type setup.

The worst part of this bad news is that the new 2.35 tire they are scheduled to release in the next few months is a folding bead. Guess what that means? No wide tires for us for a while:-(

They are saying late 2004 for the new, "improved" tires to be released.

Pretty bad news.

Soo, if you have a folding nano or moto and you blow the bead off using a stan's type setup, do us all a favor and DO NOT send it back. You're only adding to the fire.

End rant.

 

[Speedub.Nate]

Soo, if you have a folding nano or moto and you blow the bead off using a stan's type setup, do us all a favor and DO NOT send it back. You're only adding to the fire.

Hear hear. If the rubber rolls off the rim and you come home covered in a mix of blood, Stan's secret goo and dirt, suck it up and install the wire bead. I finally ordered my new "lightweight" A719 rims and am having trouble finding kevlar beaded WTB tires to mate up to them.

 

[Cloxxki]

That's a shame, WTB deserves better than that.
However, I never sent my 3 (own 4) failed yes-tubed Nano's back, just threw them out. It's really not JUST the No-Tubes thing.
Hope they'll sort it out though, and will be rewarded with even better 29" sales.

Banks brought this up a while back, so I figured I would call WTB and see if there was any news on the availability of the folding nano's and moto's.

Basically they told me this: They will only be selling wire beaded tires 29er tires until they get the "bead problems" worked out. They also acknowledged that the "bead problem" is people using them with a notubes type setup.

The worst part of this bad news is that the new 2.35 tire they are scheduled to release in the next few months is a folding bead. Guess what that means? No wide tires for us for a while:-(

They are saying late 2004 for the new, "improved" tires to be released.

Pretty bad news.

Soo, if you have a folding nano or moto and you blow the bead off using a stan's type setup, do us all a favor and DO NOT send it back. You're only adding to the fire.

 

[funboarder1971]

I had a hard time getting my wire bead Motos to seat up on my Bontrager race wheels.

The weird part was that the front seated much better than the rear. I tried switching tires from front to rear, and the rear was always a pain to seat up and hold air.

 

[aosty]

Thanks for the update, Donkey.... that is unfortunate.



P.S. I have 3 blown beads (from tubeless trials) that I'm not sending back.

 

[Cloxxki]

aosty, do they blow already at riding pressures (25-35psi), or just when you try to find the UST-typical seeting pressure of 60psi?
I wonder when it is the WTB's "fail" with tubeless, just the high pressures, or the regular loads of all-day trail riding.

"Whasdat son, feelin lucky with yer last Nano?"
no comment...

About that Epic Wolf, does anyone have any reallife specs on it? How "twopointthirtyfive" is it compared to a 2.1" Nano? If it's really 2.35:1 , it'll be HUGE! I'll take 4, without the warranty label. You only live twice.

 

[Disco_Inferno]

It won't take long

If this Olympian/Fisher Bike/Rockshok thing attracts alot of attention and demand among those competing, WTB WILL want a shot at having WTB tires on some of those bikes. It would be market insanity to not have the wider 29 tire, in Kevlar available early enough for training and field trial to win some shiny stuff at the Olympics. Relax..

 

[donkey]

Hmmmm...

...I don't that will have an effect on the availability of the product to consumers like you and me. The olympians have access to the Reba forks, but we won't be seeing those available to the public for a while I'd say. I could be wrong though.

The point of my post was to inform people of the bad news, that's all.

If this Olympian/Fisher Bike/Rockshok thing attracts alot of attention and demand among those competing, WTB WILL want a shot at having WTB tires on some of those bikes. It would be market insanity to not have the wider 29 tire, in Kevlar available early enough for training and field trial to win some shiny stuff at the Olympics. Relax..

 

[Cloxxki]

In Februari, RS told me they were aiming on an early introduction, they've lost enough sales with outdated productlines, I think.
I bet the number of olympians even remotely interested in the Epic Wolf is close to zero. Racers don't like phat tires, think they roll slow, weigh a lot, and just hold them back. The 2.1" Nano, though is a very effcient rear tire, and for skilled riders also a useful front. If WTB would want to be a race tire brand, I think'd already be one. They offer great tires for people that hate changing them, and just ride for pleasure. I expect the Epic Wolf to be just that, and can't promise to not race it, I've given up on becoming an olympian long ago...
When some olympian bring home gold afer riding a 29" Reba, you betcha RS is going to tell the world about it, and so will any company remotely related to the rider. This can only do one thing : bring 29" parts to the shops. That's the whole idea with sponsoring, to create demand and generate sales.
Ok, so who's the fekker that sued WTB over a surprise latex facejob?

 

[The_Real_Cyclesmith]

Great!!!

Now I'm never gonna trust my Moto's again!!!!! Think I buy some Bonty Jones....DAMNIT! I like my moto's too...maybe I'll just ride them till I roll the bead and kill myself.

 

[GlowBoy]

Drat!

We've been waiting for the Epic Wolf for a long, long time. I agree that Olympians would have little interest in this tire and probably won't prompt a rapid rollout. Maybe I'll have to buy that 26" disc wheel and 3.0" Gazzaloddi after all!

 

[aosty]

aosty, do they blow already at riding pressures (25-35psi), or just when you try to find the UST-typical seeting pressure of 60psi?

They all blew at around 25psi.... I have yet to inflate a 29" beyond 39psi

About that Epic Wolf, does anyone have any reallife specs on it? How "twopointthirtyfive" is it compared to a 2.1" Nano? If it's really 2.35:1 , it'll be HUGE! I'll take 4, without the warranty label. You only live twice.

I'll take four also!

 

[Cloxxki]

25psi, hmmm. I keep wondering if they blow because of too loose a fight/elastic beads, or the shear tension of being mounted tubeless. If they need the pressure/friction of tubes to hold up a bit longer, would talced tubes ask for trouble as well?

 

[nightfire]

So by the fact that loads of people don't use wide enough rims, then couple that with using a tubeless system that they are not designed for and doesn't work properly they are taking them off the market.

Why not leave them available and issue them with a statement to say the width of rim they should be used with and that they must be used with tubes.

The guilty partys are here amongst us, on this forum no doubt. No doubt you had a stupid setup and kept emailing them to complain.

You have likely had the same problem with all of your tyres but still complain.

P::..

 

[Cloxxki]

Shall I sue Michelin? One of their cross tires gave me a terribly noisy facejob, must have been some 150dB! The side of the tire said that 60psi is just fine, but that's where it went klabam.
I'm naming Michelin, as friends of mine that only run tubed had their 26" tires blow off in a pretty "straightforward" corner, nothing extreme. The blowoffs are extreme, though. Michelin are notorious for their weak kevlar beads, as well, it's not just WTB 29".

 

[nightfire]

In ten years of Mountain biking I have seen blowoff once. It was my fault and it happened in Raouls kitchen. I had not seated the bead correctly.

Kevlar or steel, a bead would need to be really bad for it to happen.

P::..

 

[Cloxxki]

>Kevlar or steel, a bead would need to be really bad for it to happen.
I agree. But to have it happen to various owners, from lightweight to clydesdale, from mechanic to newbie, means the product was just poorly designed or manufactured.
It also happened to a buddy of mine with a 29" Maxxis tire he was running at low pressure on decent touring rims. And that tire is even a really tight fit, requires tire levers for changing it. Grip exceeded the beads clinging friction, blow off, but the tube survived.
29" as a tire concept IS more prone to have such problems, tire manufacturers really have to get it right to make blowoffs as unlikely as with good 26" tires. WTB got to be one of the first ones to try, and to find out how critical things can get. I wouldn't be surprised if they're now working to get stronger beads, as well as modify their molds to have shorter, tighter fitting beads. I know nothing about tire molds, but I can imagine the Nano's would become a bit wider because of th modification. Who can shed some light in tire molding technology for us?

 

[Ron]

my 2 cents

I think the rims may have a lot to do with the blow-off issue tubes or no-tubes more so than the tires.
I've been running steel bead wtb motos with tubes on dyad rims at about 27psi front & 32pst back. The tires fit very loose on the rim and I have knocked the tire off the bead a couple of times after not landing a jump straight.

I have also ran the same tires on some old Matrix rims. The tires fit real tight on these rims and have never blown-off the bead.

On another note when I rode 26, I ran the wtb 2.4 Mutanos kevlar with no-tubes on Sun Rynolites. I never had a problem even though I have read a lot of reports of bead failure. The bead is real tight on Sun Rynolites.

Could it be that when the bead is tight before inflation the setup will be stronger? less prone to failure/blow-off? or is my experience just coincidence?

 

[Speedub.Nate]

Don't know, but my experience with wire beaded Nano's on my rebadged Alex G3000 rims is that the fit is incredibally loose, to the point that I have had three tubes "daylight" during initial install/inflation, two resulting in spectacular ear ringing explosions. Luckily for me, I mostly figured this problem out before any catastrophic failure occured while riding, and they stay seated if I take the time to work around the rim "rocking" the tire while half-inflated to ensure the bead is seated all the way around.

But if you all remember XXLT, he rolled his Nano's off his rim while riding on pavement. I believe he was riding tubed kevlar at the time. But he was able to successfully transition to wire beaded Nanos using Stan's without incident on the same set of rims. At nearly 300 pounds riding weight, that was a testament to good rim fit.

my 2 cents

I think the rims may have a lot to do with the blow-off issue tubes or no-tubes more so than the tires.
I've been running steel bead wtb motos with tubes on dyad rims at about 27psi front & 32pst back. The tires fit very loose on the rim and I have knocked the tire off the bead a couple of times after not landing a jump straight.

I have also ran the same tires on some old Matrix rims. The tires fit real tight on these rims and have never blown-off the bead.

On another note when I rode 26, I ran the wtb 2.4 Mutanos kevlar with no-tubes on Sun Rynolites. I never had a problem even though I have read a lot of reports of bead failure. The bead is real tight on Sun Rynolites.

Could it be that when the bead is tight before inflation the setup will be stronger? less prone to failure/blow-off? or is my experience just coincidence?

 

[ssmike]

Don't know, but my experience with wire beaded Nano's on my rebadged Alex G3000 rims is that the fit is incredibally loose, to the point that I have had three tubes "daylight"

I have found that Alex rims are also on the small side of the diameter scale. A combination of small rim/large bead diameter = boom! And to make matters worse, if you get tolerances on the small side for the rim and large side for the tire, well, you get the idea. The Nano folding tire on my double-u TB speedmaster rims is a nice fit.

FWIW, I'm running epic wolf 2.1 x 26 tires on laser disc rims with stan's - 8 months with zero issues. psi usually in the low 30's.