[Kirsa]

I have 2 wheelsets with DT swiss 180 EXP sinc ceramic hubs.
One is 3rd party wheelset and wife wheelset came with bike - so different sources.

All 4 hubs were very stiff and tight when new. After service by LBS they felt little bit better and when driving it was okeyish.

But now after 10 rides and after 1 wet ride (I dried bikes after ride) - rear is much worse - very hard to turn by hand and very rough. Rear bearings probably need replacement.
I opened up the freewheel - ratchet and drive side bearing were muddy and wet.

I have 3 sets of wheels with dt swiss 240s hubs - all running silky smooth even after winter usage.

I'd say these hubs have serious desing flaws or just manufacturing error - anyone having similar experience?

 

[EdSawyer]

I have a set on some wheels I just got, have not ridden yet, they feel nice for now, smooth and tight. Hopefully they hold up - they are not cheap!

 

[forward]

I have been riding a new DT Swiss XMC 1200 29 180 exp wheelset for about 1500km and hubs have been very smooth and quiet. Many muddy rides and washes. No problems at all. Just regreased the ratchet mechanism and endcaps. Works great.

 

[ungod]

Are you saying that the wheels are hard to turn (e.g. wheel bearings), or the freehub is hard to turn (e.g. when pedaling backwards the chain jumps around/loses tension)?

 

[Jayem]

I thought maybe a few years ago there were possible counterfeit 180s?

I have a 180 on my race wheelset for XC and I've thrashed it hard, admittedly only for race-day, but it's never missed a beat. Seems to be a great hub. They aren't available aftermarket anymore though. I also have 240 and 350 hubs. Functionally they are exactly the same.

 

[LMN]

That has been my experience with all the new DT swiss hubs. I had 10-sets of them and every single one of them was a constant source of work to keep smooth. It was super disappointing because all the previous DT-swiss hubs I had were unbelievably good. I have a 12-year old set with almost 100,000km on it that is perfect on my CX bike.

 

[Cleared2land]

I have owned several DT Swiss hubs/wheel sets (pawl and Star Ratchets) over the past 15 years with never an issue. They have always been dependable, smooth and easy to service and maintain.

 

[TylerVernon]

Been looking at these hubs, but the 240 EXP is only 15g heavier and doesn't have those goofy ceramic bearings.

 

[Cleared2land]

^^^^ I'm unsure of what 'goofy' means, but those 180's look pretty cool.

 

[MrRidealong]

My 180EXP lasted only a few weeks. Slow bearings and slipping ratchet. Being replaced on warranty. Still waiting after 6 weeks...

 

[Cleared2land]

Slow bearings? What does that mean?

 

[jochribs]

Slow bearings? What does that mean?

I read it to mean that the tolerances aren't up to snuff. Which, if true is seriously disappointing coming from DT.

Hope he chimes back in and gives some more info.

 

[MrRidealong]

Slow bearings? What does that mean?

Hubs were not spinning smoothly when new. I expected them to loosen a bit after some use. Instead, after a few weeks, the ratchet started slipping and wore out. Found the right side bearing behind the ratchet in hub shell was not turning smoothly. In front hub the bearings was not seated properly from factory and rubbed against the end caps. I reseated them an they got better. Could be that rear hub bearing is not seated properly either, but I will leave that to the shop.

 

[jochribs]

Hubs were not spinning smoothly when new. I expected them to loosen a bit after some use. Instead, after a few weeks, the ratchet started slipping and wore out. Found the right side bearing behind the ratchet in hub shell was not turning smoothly. In front hub the bearings was not seated properly from factory and rubbed against the end caps. I reseated them an they got better. Could be that rear hub bearing is not seated properly either, but I will leave that to the shop.

The thing about cartridge bearings rolling stiffly is generally that the bore that they are sitting in is too tight. Or that there is misalignment from side to side so that when the axle runs through it binds the bearings. For this to happen on DT180 level hubs is pretty disappointing.

Where did you get them? That poor of performance from new, leading to failure over the space of a couple weeks would have me demanding a refund.

 

[Cleared2land]

Instead, after a few weeks, the ratchet started slipping and wore out.

Have some photos? I've never seen a worn out star ratchet, especially after just a few weeks.

 

[Fieldlab]

What's up with this, DT?

I love the star ratchet and DT hubs have always gotten great reviews, and the idea of moving the drive side bearing outboard and keeping the moving clutch inside the replaceable freehub instead of the expensive hub seemed like a great idea. So I was all ready to buy a set when I became very concerned about what might be a big design flaw- the drive side bearing is now mounted inside the inner star ratchet, which is now a threaded cup.

But duh- those fine threads appear to *transfer 100% of the maximum torque applied to the cassette*. If you thought removing threaded on free wheels was a pain in the @ss, consider that these threads are much smaller. In other words it looks to me like that bearing is basically not replaceable, or not very easily, and I'd have to worry about damaging those threads even if you did manage to get the cup out. They even sell a little splined removal tool that looks like an old Avid mechanical brake service tool, and the engagement on the star ratchet cup is like under 5mm. Good luck with that! DT actually shows the removal tool in a vice, and someone just rotating it off by hand! LMFAO. What sorcery is this?

What's, more, those inside teeth now look very skimpy, not as tall now.

Am I missing something here? Is DT making disposable hubs? Yikes!

It seems like all they needed to do here was make that cup round, fitting into a round hole with normal bearing clearance (not so tight it would *effect the bearing*), and put 2 or 3 square key stock inserts down into the joint, and use a lockring. Simple, and no problems with alignment, bearing tightness or taking large loads without marring or impact. You could also use intermittent splines.

https://www.dtswiss.com/pmt/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/10/00/00/03/11/1/MAN_HXD10000003111S_WEB_EN_001.pdf

 

[Rngspnr]

The old design was the same for bearing replacement. You need to get the drive ring out to replace the bearing. The only difference now is that the inside star ratchet is stationary. The only downside I see to the new design is that if you were to break the fixed drive ratchet you can't do a trailside repair like the old design were if you had an extra star ratchet set you could just replace it with no tools.

 

[Fajita Dave]

Yeah that new design is a no go for me. I never had to replace a ratchet trail side but I definitely want the ability to if I strip the teeth off one. I keep the 18t stashed in my pack. Especially since it's just to save a few messily grams of weight.

 

[Fieldlab]

The old design was the same for bearing replacement. You need to get the drive ring out to replace the bearing. The only difference now is that the inside star ratchet is stationary. The only downside I see to the new design is that if you were to break the fixed drive ratchet you can't do a trailside repair like the old design were if you had an extra star ratchet set you could just replace it with no tools.

The difference is the old ring was quite large and the removal tool splines are the full size and thickness of one of the star ratchets. This new little thing is a joke. I'm seeing all kinds of complaints about these new EXP hubs too, people saying they have lots of friction etc, which is unbelievable for DT hubs, and I'm guessing this little cup is collapsing around the bearing, distorting it with unusual compression. I predict the current EXP hubs will be withdrawn or updated within 6 months.

I have a beautiful old Hayes Hugi hub with 3/8 (10mm) QR steel axle. Guess what? The smaller bearings allow you to rebuild the hub and take out all the bearings including the drive side bearing, *without* removing that ring. The old bearings were small enough to go right down the middle of those star ratchet splines. The hub ring was never intended to be removed in the original design.

They changed all that when they went to larger axles but they screwed up the design in the process. They should have made that spline ring larger so the bearing could still pass through it, (and increased the outer circumference of the hub star gear). The original design was great, and they have messed it up again and again since then.

And get this- that old Hayes Hugi hub is loaded up with 4 identical F*A*G bearings (really) that still feel as perfect as the day they were installed.

 

[jochribs]

The difference is the old ring was quite large and the removal tool splines are the full size and thickness of one of the star ratchets. This new little thing is a joke. I'm seeing all kinds of complaints about these new EXP hubs too, people saying they have lots of friction etc, which is unbelievable for DT hubs, and I'm guessing this little cup is collapsing around the bearing, distorting it with unusual compression. I predict the current EXP hubs will be withdrawn or updated within 6 months.

I have a beautiful old Hayes Hugi hub with 3/8 (10mm) QR steel axle. Guess what? The smaller bearings allow you to rebuild the hub and take out all the bearings including the drive side bearing, *without* removing that ring. The old bearings were small enough to go right down the middle of those star ratchet splines. The hub ring was never intended to be removed in the original design.

They changed all that when they went to larger axles but they screwed up the design in the process. They should have made that spline ring larger so the bearing could still pass through it, (and increased the outer circumference of the hub star gear). The original design was great, and they have messed it up again and again since then.

And get this- that old Hayes Hugi hub is loaded up with 4 identical F*A*G bearings (really) that still feel as perfect as the day they were installed.

Can't agree with you more. I still have an old Hugi that I wish I could lace up into something again. Awesome hub. I'll be sticking with 350's for now.