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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I spotted the Azonic Revenge frame in MB Mag and it looks just like the Atlas Expert I just ordered....

http://www.azonicusa.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=52_30&products_id=205

If this is the same frame? Based on the price I feel even better about my Atlas prurchase. However, the Azonic cites 7005 Alcoa Aluminum and the Atlas 6061. Are they the same frame? And does anyone know what the difference is between the 7005 and 6061?
 

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Heres something from the graveyard...

michdad said:
I spotted the Azonic Revenge frame in MB Mag and it looks just like the Atlas Expert I just ordered....http://www.azonicusa.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=52_30&products_id=205
If this is the same frame? Based on the price I feel even better about my Atlas prurchase. However, the Azonic cites 7005 Alcoa Aluminum and the Atlas 6061. Are they the same frame? And does anyone know what the difference is between the 7005 and 6061?
A little reading, (click>) I like this frame better

Jake
 

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Jake nailed it

Click on the link Jake provided, and you get answers to all your questions. Jack gives very detailed information on the frame(s) and spells out pretty clearly the difference between the materials used in their manufacture, You'll be even happier when you finish reading!

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I read it, and that helped a lot. I really have a good feeling about Jack and Ibex. It's cool to think that a small mfg. is so willing to share openly with his customers. I've been interested in bikes long enough to know that most frames are made by a handful of manfacturers. Who comes up with the actual frame design? Even if it's not Ibex, I've seen enough to know that if Jack thinks it's a good design and value, it probably is. :thumbsup:
 

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More Ibex facts

In addition to how open Jack is here in the forums, a call to him will reveal a lot more. To answer your design question, Ibex designs most of the frames they build. What you may not know is how much input his customers (and the Zealots in particular) effect what they produce. The Trophy Pro frame in brushed aluminum would never have made it into production if Jake, myself and others didn't threaten to castrate Jack if he didn't produce it! (obviously I'm joking, but you get the point). There were some issues with the cockpit room on the '06 Asta frames, and because of comments in this forum, the issue was corrected before the '07 went to production! The parts specs on the Atlas, Asta and Trophy models this year was greatly influenced by comments in this forum asking for an all SRAM (Avid, SRAM, Truvativ, RockShox) build and an all Shimano build. Look at the specs on these bikes and you'll see what I mean (in areas where it was impractical, certain items couldn't be manufacturer specific). The '06 B27 had revisions to the fork and brakes based on input we made. I had a very length conversartion with Jack this month regarding the future of the Ibex B series bike and the 29er. My guess is that he's considering those thoughts too.

My point is that he listens to his customers and supporters. Sometimes he tosses an idea out for us to chew on, and we come back with feedback or alternative ideas. He listens, and is fast to implement appropriate and sensible changes. Jack's definitely the decision maker, and is by no means at the whim of our collective fancy. He does give the buyer a good bit of leeway in assisting him in bringing to market what his buyers would like to see. How many bike companies can claim this level of interaction with their buyers, and ability to react to their wants? I can think of two others, and they are in the boutique frame manufacturing business.

Do you see why we like this man and his company?

End of dogma.

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yea, I was pretty amazed that the 2 times I called Ibex, Jack answered the phone and on the 2nd call spent 40 minutes answering my questions before I ordered my Atlas Expert. Your comments are exactly why I went with Ibex over the Specialized that I was considering...not to mention the incredible value of the bike. It certainly adds to the excitement of buying a new bike to say you "know" the owner of the company. I haven't even ridden an Ibex yet, but have a feeling I won't be dissapointed. I also have a feeling this won't be my last Ibex purchase (for me, or my two young mountain biking sons).:)
 

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Guys,

I too am dying waiting for my Atlas. So I read everything I can mentioning this bike.

I am a mechanical engineer, and can shed some light on these two aluminum alloys 6061, and 7005. I am not sure what heat treatment they used making the tubing, so I picked the most popular -T6, ex 6061-T6

Mechanical properties link here:
6061
http://www.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA6061T6

7005
http://www.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA7005T6

The important criteria I always consider are:
-Tensile strength (Ultimate)-Break point
-Tensile strength (Yield)-Bend point (bend and not spring back to its original position or shape)
-Enlongation at break (how much the material will stretch before it breaks) Brittle materials don't stretch much (ie Glass), and ductile materials do.
-Fatigue strength (how strong the material is after flexing a set number of cycles) ie. bend a paper clip 20 times and it breaks.
-Shear strength-Strength of material perpendicular to its length ie. two flat plate bolted together will shear a bolt when they slide against each other at high enough force.
-Density-how much a given volume of material weighs ie. 1 lb/cubic inch

Other important criteria (that we don't have information on this from Matweb.com)
-Material cost ie. titanium is great material but costs a mint
-Weldability-If it doesn't weld well it won't work well for frames
-Machinability-If it take a long time to machine (bore holes etc.) it will cost more to manufacture.

There are many more material properties that are not relavent in bike frames ie. thermal properties (radiator design, etc), electrical properties (household wiring), etc.

Considering everything we know about these two materials, I say the 7005 has superior properties. Considering everything we do not know (cost, weldability, etc) we can't make a choice on which material is better for frames.

Even if we assume 7005 is superior in all aspects to 6061 it does not mean 6061 is inferior in the Atlas frame application. It could exceed all design, and performance expectations in the Atlas frame.
What I mean is considering the loads, stresses and fatigues the frame will be exposed too, the frame could work perfectly. Assuming (praying) the frame designers did a good job in sizing the tube diameters, geometries, weld sizes and penetration depth, a properly designed frame should have infinite life under normal conditions. What is normal though? A 300 lb clyde doing 30ft drops is probably not a normal design criteria.

I hope this information is helpful.

Best of luck,

:thumbsup: Steve Krause
Oakland, NJ
 
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