Hadley...speaking of which...
...anyone know their corporate website addy??
...anyone know their corporate website addy??
Azonic Outlaws vs. King (or Hadley)/Singletrack
Title pretty much says it all. Weight, cost, maintanence, etc.... which do you peeps think is the better value for the money??
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Consider that you can get a complete Outlaw wheelset for less than a King rear hub. The comparison you're trying to make is like apples to oranges. That being said, I despise singletrack rims, and if you decide to burn the mountain of cash needed for a set of King-quality hubs and a custom build, I'd spring for something better. Outlaws are highly regarded for their cost to quality ratio. Once in a while you hear about someone who blows the freehub in an Outlaw, but Azonic takes care of it.fireboy said:Title pretty much says it all. Weight, cost, maintanence, etc.... which do you peeps think is the better value for the money??
I guess I really shouldn't have put the "vs." in the title. I'm kind of at a fork in the road on this decision and just wanted the pros and cons of each choice...not really a head to head comparison. Your post brings up some great points. Thank you!! I look at the outlaws as an economical way to achieve a solid well built wheelset without the expense and hassle of building from scratch, not as a head to head quality challenge with a high end hand built set (which is why I included "for the money" in the original post). I was also considering the Mavic 819 as a viable option to the singletracks. I do have a custom made set of King/Mavics on my hardtail that I just love..and have never had truing issues with the Mavics....although I've had issues with the freewheel on the King hub since the purchase (problems with chainsuck when ratchet pedalling or back pedalling)...which is the main reason I inquire about Hadley. Especially now that King is "pulling an ellsworth" and making you go through authorized dealers instead of allowing customers to deal with them directly.
You could always pick up the Outlaws and take them to your esteemed local wheel builder to let him tension them up properly as machine built wheels never are. That's the economical solution.
You can also buy Outlaw rims only and have them laced to whatever hub you choose. Hope Bulb is a semi economical choice, or a Hadley for a little more $. Since this is a heavy duty wheelset, you would opt for the HD King hub, probably, so you save no weight by going with Hadley and the price of King much outweights the quality/performance of the bits vs competitors.
Lastly, what exactly do you plan on doing with these wheels? There is a plethora of rim choices that can be optimized by knowing exactly what you want to do with the wheels. Just to plug in an excellint rim I have come across, a Tioga Factory DH rim, 35mm wide, 580g.
_MK
You can also buy Outlaw rims only and have them laced to whatever hub you choose. Hope Bulb is a semi economical choice, or a Hadley for a little more $. Since this is a heavy duty wheelset, you would opt for the HD King hub, probably, so you save no weight by going with Hadley and the price of King much outweights the quality/performance of the bits vs competitors.
Lastly, what exactly do you plan on doing with these wheels? There is a plethora of rim choices that can be optimized by knowing exactly what you want to do with the wheels. Just to plug in an excellint rim I have come across, a Tioga Factory DH rim, 35mm wide, 580g.
_MK
Wheels will be for my 2005 Kona Coiler. I use it for aggressive XC and light DH/FR duty. The rims I have on my Cove Stiffee are Mavic 321's laced to Kings with the steel cassette body. I basically use the bikes similarly, but the Kona sees time at Novice/Sport DH races and FR stuff like bigger (5-7') drops on which the Cove would just beat me to death.
I think you're right, the Hadley's might be a better choice over the King's when you take into account the extra money for the steel cassette, etc...
I think you're right, the Hadley's might be a better choice over the King's when you take into account the extra money for the steel cassette, etc...
Hadley doesn't have a website. Feel free to post any questions you have about them though and I'll try to answer for you. Been building a LOT of wheels with Hadley's lately, great hubs.fireboy said:...anyone know their corporate website addy??
Larry Mettler
Mountain High Cyclery
No website?!?!?! Wow...stone agers, eh??Ventanarama said:Hadley doesn't have a website.
I see some different options on their rear hubs...one says 108 (or something like that...) engagement system...while another says 3 pawls and 70 something teeth....what's the deal?? I just want the straight poop on their products before I think of having the LBS order up a set (BTW, this is the way I'm leaning.... Mavic 321's / Hadleys)
I'm having an issue with my Kings and until it gets resolved I can't warrant buying another set of their hubs. The rear hub has not freewheeled or back pedalled properly since the date of purchase. King has sent me ring lube and given me tips on getting the hub to loosen up (they think it's a "break in" problem) but it's now been 3 seasons and my knees and my frame can no longer put up with the chainsuck (from the TOP of the chainring no less!!). I had my LBS contact King and they want me to ship it to them AT MY EXPENSE to see if it MIGHT be a warranty issue. If they deem it's NOT...then I get to pay for labor and return shipping!!! What the *&^$?? The price alone should mandate more of a stand behind their product than what I am seeing!!!! and this from a 10 year loyal King owner!!
phew...OK...I'm better...any info on the hadley's would be great!
They make rear hubs with either 36pt or 108pt engagement (King is 72). You can get the rear with quick-release, 10mm thru-axle (fits standard dropouts) or 12mm thru-axle. Front is QR, 9mm thru-axle, or 20mm (20mm is not covertable to QR or 9mm). A little heavier than King, but less drag and I've had superb reliability from them so far.fireboy said:No website?!?!?! Wow...stone agers, eh??
I see some different options on their rear hubs...one says 108 (or something like that...) engagement system...while another says 3 pawls and 70 something teeth....what's the deal?? I just want the straight poop on their products before I think of having the LBS order up a set (BTW, this is the way I'm leaning.... Mavic 321's / Hadleys)
Larry Mettler
http://www.mtnhighcyclery.com
Awesome...so what would be the differing advantages of the 36 or the 108?? Seems they'd both have acceptable engagement parameters....Ventanarama said:They make rear hubs with either 36pt or 108pt engagement (King is 72). You can get the rear with quick-release, 10mm thru-axle (fits standard dropouts) or 12mm thru-axle. Front is QR, 9mm thru-axle, or 20mm (20mm is not covertable to QR or 9mm). A little heavier than King, but less drag and I've had superb reliability from them so far.
Larry Mettler
http://www.mtnhighcyclery.com
Also, am I right in understanding that the Hadleys come standard with a Titanium cassette body?? As stated above, I'd want to go with the steel body from King which would negate the weight savings and increase the cost...correct??
BTW...thanks for all this info....
The Hadleys are great and I have heard good things about them. I think my Hope XCs are like 36 tooth and the engagement of the Hadley is far superior. BTW, Ventanarama built mine and I asked for the Hadleys- red, by the way 
I don't see any advantage to going with the 36pt. Yes, they do come stock with Ti cassette body. I don't remember the King weight off the top of my head with steel body, but yes that should bring the weights pretty close to even and make the price gap even larger.fireboy said:Awesome...so what would be the differing advantages of the 36 or the 108?? Seems they'd both have acceptable engagement parameters....
Also, am I right in understanding that the Hadleys come standard with a Titanium cassette body?? As stated above, I'd want to go with the steel body from King which would negate the weight savings and increase the cost...correct??
BTW...thanks for all this info....
Larry
Longtime King user (13+ years)... now have Hadleys and am extremely happy with them.
Cool!! Thanks for all this great input....
Now a buddy on another board is pointing out the Mavic DeeMax's...still in the same ballpark wieght-wise (DeeMax are actually 140 grams LIGHTER than a King steel / Mavic 321 3-cross build)..and $100 bucks cheaper. Good thing I've got all winter to beat this around....
Now a buddy on another board is pointing out the Mavic DeeMax's...still in the same ballpark wieght-wise (DeeMax are actually 140 grams LIGHTER than a King steel / Mavic 321 3-cross build)..and $100 bucks cheaper. Good thing I've got all winter to beat this around....
For the price, Outlaws rock, even for Clydesdales!
I weigh in at 220 lbs "fully loaded" and ride fairly hard for an old man. The Outlaws have stayed remarkably true despite lots of 3-4' drops to flats, square-edged hits, etc. The only trouble I've had is that I broke a spoke on a pretty hard square-edged hit. Otherwise, I haven't had to do even minor truing (as opposed to lots of other machine-built wheels I've owned).
I weigh in at 220 lbs "fully loaded" and ride fairly hard for an old man. The Outlaws have stayed remarkably true despite lots of 3-4' drops to flats, square-edged hits, etc. The only trouble I've had is that I broke a spoke on a pretty hard square-edged hit. Otherwise, I haven't had to do even minor truing (as opposed to lots of other machine-built wheels I've owned).
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