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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I run a set of Juicy 7's on my full squish bike and I run a set of Juicy 3's on my rigid. I've had the same problem on both of them. The CPS bolts, washers etc. seem to get warped from tightening or just plain move while I'm riding. So is there a better set of CPS hardware for these?
 

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Old man on a bike
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Never been a problem for me. You tightening to spec? You use thread locker of some sort?

In any case the washers are Avid's, I don't know of any others you could substitute. You could just ditch the CPS washers if you wanted to lose the adjustability and substitute standard washers of the same stack height if you think they're the problem, bolts you could probably source from a variety of places. Maybe just make sure you're setting them up correctly or don't have some issue with the mounts/adapters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I don't have a torque wrench so I'm not tightening to spec. But here is my problem. I tighten the bolts down and everything is running smoothly. I go for a ride and the position of my caliper moves. So then I have to constantly re adjust the cps bolts so that things run smoothly. I re adjust and tighten them down a little harder. They move again. I re adjust and tighten them down a little harder and then don't move for a while. They finally move again after like 5 rides. So I re adjust and tighten them down again and they will not adjust so that the pads do not rub. So I loosen the bolts use my finger to rotate the CPS washers a little and tighten again. The pads do not rub now. But then the last ride I had they began to rub again by the end of the ride. So that is basically my problem.

A couple of other things to consider. I'm a clyde at 225 lbs. I think what may be happening is that my wheel is flexing causing my rotor to move a little and maybe that is pulling my caliper out of position on the CPS bolts. So if thats the case then I guess I'm SOL until I can afford a much stiffer stronger wheel set. My rims are DT Swiss 540.
 

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I'd love to see a picture of the warped bolts you claim to be the problem. I have a hard time believing that you're "warping" bolts by tightening them by hand.

Since you've adjusted these brakes many times by now and the thread lock might have worn off I'd recomend a new coating of lock-tite, adjustment and tighten those bolts up. You could try a light coating of grease on contact surfaces of the CPS washers to make sure they are not sticking against each other while you're adjusting and tightening. Also when you are tightening the bolts down for good make sure to do a 1/4 turn on one bolt, then a 1/4 turn on the other and go back and forth until you're at the proper tourqe(or your guesstimate if you don't have a tourqe wrench).
 

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Another possibility could be that the wheel is shifting in the dropout. Make sure the quick release is tight - or change to a Shimano or DT Swiss type qr if you don't have one already. A quick way to check this is, while the bike is sitting on the ground, apply some weight down on either the seat or handlebars with one hand while you open the QR with the other. If you feel a "shifting" of the wheel in the dropout, that indicates your wheel is moving in the dropout.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Seanbike said:
If the threads on either the bolt or the adapter were bad you'd be able to tell when you are tightening the bolts.
Its the Washers that I think are warping. The bolts and threads seem to be fine.

Yeah, I have not been using loctite on the washers. I will try that and see if it makes a difference.

What I was getting at was that I could temporarily solve the problem by loosening the bolts and then rotating the washers about half a turn and tighten the CPS bolts back down. Of course this was a temporary fix. The fact that I am rotating the washers and getting different results tells me that the washers are probably warped.

FYI, This has been a problem on three different bikes with two different sets of Avid juicy brakes.
 

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I like Monkeys
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I just ditched the cps washers and used normal flat washers and had better results in alignment and noise than I had with CPS. The CPS system is unnecessary and troublesome IMHO.

I finally gave up on them because of noise and a grabby lever feel. I've gone to formula with no regrets.
 

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brain3278 said:
Its the Washers that I think are warping. The bolts and threads seem to be fine.

Yeah, I have not been using loctite on the washers. I will try that and see if it makes a difference.

What I was getting at was that I could temporarily solve the problem by loosening the bolts and then rotating the washers about half a turn and tighten the CPS bolts back down. Of course this was a temporary fix. The fact that I am rotating the washers and getting different results tells me that the washers are probably warped.

FYI, This has been a problem on three different bikes with two different sets of Avid juicy brakes.
No, read seanbike's instructions again and use the thread locker (blue loctite or similar) on the threads of the bolt, grease on the washers. Sounds like how easily they loosen up that you're not tightening enough or properly initially (when you tighten pairs of bolts you alternate, not just do one at a time). Torque wrenches can be handy in this sort of situation, too, so you could quantify how much you're tightening. Yes, you might try a new set of washers, they could have been set somewhat by the constant loosening up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Bikinfoolferlife said:
No, read seanbike's instructions again and use the thread locker (blue loctite or similar) on the threads of the bolt, grease on the washers. Sounds like how easily they loosen up that you're not tightening enough or properly initially (when you tighten pairs of bolts you alternate, not just do one at a time). Torque wrenches can be handy in this sort of situation, too, so you could quantify how much you're tightening. Yes, you might try a new set of washers, they could have been set somewhat by the constant loosening up.
yeah, I've been alternating when I tighten the bolts. making sure not to tighten one too much before I tighten the other to equal it. and all this while I keep pressure on the brake lever. I've been doing this from the start.

Never thought of the grease on the washers thing. But won't that grease just serve to grease the caliper bracket (slots) when I tighten the washers to it. Or get on the threads. I think I'll stick to the blue loctite for now. I'm scared I would get grease on the pad or the disk during handling/install.

Again I don't have a torque wrench. I'm sure its a very useful tool. I'd buy one but I've got a million other things that I would use more and need more.

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'll try the blue loctite out and post back if that doesn't work.
 

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brain3278 said:
yeah, I've been alternating when I tighten the bolts. making sure not to tighten one too much before I tighten the other to equal it. and all this while I keep pressure on the brake lever. I've been doing this from the start.

Never thought of the grease on the washers thing. But won't that grease just serve to grease the caliper bracket (slots) when I tighten the washers to it. Or get on the threads. I think I'll stick to the blue loctite for now. I'm scared I would get grease on the pad or the disk during handling/install.

Again I don't have a torque wrench. I'm sure its a very useful tool. I'd buy one but I've got a million other things that I would use more and need more.

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'll try the blue loctite out and post back if that doesn't work.
You should be lightly oiling the washers. It will actually prevent them for shifting becaus they are more likely to be in the right place when you tighten the bolts. And loosen the bolts JUST enough to let the caliper move for adjustment.

ssmike's suggestion of the wheel(s) moving in the dropouts is very likely, too. Be sure your QR skewers are tight. If you have trouble closing them, get Shimano skewers. Avoid ti shaft QRs. A "flexy" rim/spokes will not affect the disc rotors. A slipping axle will.
 

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MileHighMark said:
Somewhere I recall reading that Avid was going to make the CPS concave/convex hardware harder so that it was more resistant to "setting," etc.
True. I've seen many bb7 set ups that were giving their owners fits and the culprit turned out to be damaged cps washers. If overtightened, they have a tendency to crush and deform. This can make it a real hassle to set up brakes sometimes. New washers usually solves it.
 

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Hey Matt, You really should watch the Harbor Freight adds and drop in there and get you a torque wrench and a set of metric allen sockets for it. Good deals can be found there.

Have you checked to make sure that both pistons are moving equally and freely? Sticking pistons are a known issue with Juicies (at least with my 5's). When you brake with one side sticking it would certainly be pushing the whole caliper one way or another and could cause it to move out of position. If the caliper is aligned properly and the pistons are working equally then there should be zero side to side motion reguardless of clydelyness.

Also, I don't think wheel-flex should be an issue. The rotors are mounted to the hub which should have no flex.
 

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Not worth the headache

kmacon said:
Hey Matt, You really should watch the Harbor Freight adds and drop in there and get you a torque wrench and a set of metric allen sockets for it. Good deals can be found there.
I went that route, ended up stripping a few bolt heads with the sloppy allen sockets, and broke a pinch bolt because the torque wrench is unreliable at best. Definitely worth getting quality when buying a torque wrench. I saw a beam type Craftsman for about $25. There is a reason Harbor Freight is so cheap.
 

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powderhound82 said:
I went that route, ended up stripping a few bolt heads with the sloppy allen sockets, and broke a pinch bolt because the torque wrench is unreliable at best. Definitely worth getting quality when buying a torque wrench. I saw a beam type Craftsman for about $25. There is a reason Harbor Freight is so cheap.
Interesting, yeah you have to walk into Harbor Freight with the understanding of what you are getting into. I guess I was lucky with my torque wrench as it compares favorably with my bigger Sears wrench that I use on my car engine.

My allen set of sockets came from someplace else, I don't remember where, but it was long before Harbor Freight was around and thus they are of pretty high quality.

K
 
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