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Hi Chris,

First off, I am guilty of never having attended a SWIMBA meeting. There is however an issue that I believe needs some immediate attention and now is the time to do it. I would make sure that I have time to help with any sort of effort. Rider Education! I know you have been putting out pamphlets / attaching them to new bike sales, etc. However, I think trail ettiquette cannot be overempasized, especially now with the trails packed with eager mtbers and families out hiking. Our singletrack has turned to doubletrack-width hiways and are still expanding. And most importantly I'll bet "we" as mountain bikers are pissing off a lot of hikers. Heck, I'm pissed as hell at speeding downhillers, I can only imagine what those out there with the kids and dogs must think. My suggestion: two information tables set up on whatever weekends are possible through this early spring period at the main trailheads: the lower 8th St. parking lot and the Bogus Basin Rd Corrals trailhead. Main issues: trail rights-of-way, speeding around blind corners, proper means of passing. Perhaps some of the local bike shops could pitch in with logo'd water bottles with some sort of etiquette logo to further attract folks. Hikers would see that the mtb community is actively trying to educate our own while also making mtbers better aware of what is at risk. Just my two cents.

Adam
 

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Chris

AdamW said:
Hi Chris,

First off, I am guilty of never having attended a SWIMBA meeting. There is however an issue that I believe needs some immediate attention and now is the time to do it. I would make sure that I have time to help with any sort of effort. Rider Education! I know you have been putting out pamphlets / attaching them to new bike sales, etc. However, I think trail ettiquette cannot be overempasized, especially now with the trails packed with eager mtbers and families out hiking. Our singletrack has turned to doubletrack-width hiways and are still expanding. And most importantly I'll bet "we" as mountain bikers are pissing off a lot of hikers. Heck, I'm pissed as hell at speeding downhillers, I can only imagine what those out there with the kids and dogs must think. My suggestion: two information tables set up on whatever weekends are possible through this early spring period at the main trailheads: the lower 8th St. parking lot and the Bogus Basin Rd Corrals trailhead. Main issues: trail rights-of-way, speeding around blind corners, proper means of passing. Perhaps some of the local bike shops could pitch in with logo'd water bottles with some sort of etiquette logo to further attract folks. Hikers would see that the mtb community is actively trying to educate our own while also making mtbers better aware of what is at risk. Just my two cents.

Adam
I think we're gonna be riding up at Stack and Eside a lot more....
 

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Wandervans
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Sounds like a good idea...

Actually the land managers are getting few if any calls about mountain bikers going too fast, but are mostly getting calls about dog poop and off leash dogs.

But it never hurts to be proactive, now the real question is who can man these booths on weekends? If you would be willing to recruit some volenteers, I can get the permission needed, tables, and have the materials available. A wednesday evening would also not be a bad time to have a booth.

Chris
 

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I've been out a decent # of times over the past couple of weeks both MTB'ing and hiking and here are my gripes....

Dog crap
Dogs off leash
Downhill rider not yielding to uphill users
Signalling when passing
Users unaware that there are other people on the trail

Maybe danK can run something in Thrive or the Rec section??

Nick

-------

And FWIW....the past couple of clinics we've had at the store, each presenter did make mention of trail etiquette.
 

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Add to that:

Downhill riders riding off trail in an effort to yield to uphill riders. (K.I.S.S.)

I can't count how many times a rider sitting at the top of the climb will start downhill while I am riding uphill and then ride through the grass to get around me (or not yield at all) when they could wait for 10 seconds for me to summit before they begin.


By the way, do you know how fun it is to hold your ground when a downhiller comes toward you and then they crash trying to get around you at the last second because they assumed you would yeild?:D
 

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TRAIL KUBUKI CORNDOGGER
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Unfortunately this is this time of year that the thundering herds come out - and with them are a few jerks.

If 1 out of 100 riders is an uneducated rider (i.e., idiot) and you see 100 riders while out on the trail (not unusual of a busy day sometimes), then one of them is going to be the idiot who's going to something dangerous, stupid, uncourtious, disrespectful, whatever. Unfortunately those are the guys who can ruin a good ride and give the rest of us a bad rep.
 

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Fyi- R2r

Is putting together a Volunteer Trail Ranger system in the next few weeks. There will be about 6 trail rangers who's primary function is education NOT enforcement. I think 4 of the 6 rangers are mountainbikers. Some of the 4 mountainbikers are also runners and dog owners. The balance are equestrians or hikers. With the user community in the Foothills growing, I think this is a great step in trying to reduce user conflict and educate new users on proper etiquette...
 

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Good topic to bring up. I'm new here but have been an observer for quite some time. I've wanted to bring this topic up several times myself, but wanted to defer to the regulars and so I'll add my $.02 now.

From my own experience this spring, I agree that it is getting chaotic out there on the busy days. I split my time between mountain biking and running with my dogs (picking up their poop, and usually someopne else's while I'm at it), and each time I go out, I invariably have an experience with a mountain biker who thinks he (yes he - this never happens with women) has the right of way no matter what. The biggest problem is not yeilding to uphill users, as mentioned by a previous post. Heading off trail, into the grass, widening the singletrack, or in some cases double track, is inexcusable, in my opinion. The lack of courtesy is appauling. And what's more, *most* of the people I see doing this are riding with their team jersey's on! How stupid is that?

Chris, I find it irrelevant that land managers are not getting complaints about poor trail ettiquette of mountain bikers. I'm sorry, but just because they aren't hearing about it doesn't mean it isn't happening. Look at the width of the trails, especially sections of Sidewinder which gets very little hiking use as compared to mountain bikes - this is not happening because there's too many dogs and hikers out there. It is us and we must do something about it.

I'd happily volunteer to sit at a table. Its pretty obvious that trying to hold interventions, either by saying something or holding ground while these folks head off trail to avoid you, is just going to get the blood pressure up - and I'm usually heading out there to relax after a long day at work...

matt
 

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boisematt said:
Good topic to bring up. I'm new here but have been an observer for quite some time. I've wanted to bring this topic up several times myself, but wanted to defer to the regulars and so I'll add my $.02 now.

From my own experience this spring, I agree that it is getting chaotic out there on the busy days. I split my time between mountain biking and running with my dogs (picking up their poop, and usually someopne else's while I'm at it), and each time I go out, I invariably have an experience with a mountain biker who thinks he (yes he - this never happens with women) has the right of way no matter what. The biggest problem is not yeilding to uphill users, as mentioned by a previous post. Heading off trail, into the grass, widening the singletrack, or in some cases double track, is inexcusable, in my opinion. The lack of courtesy is appauling. And what's more, *most* of the people I see doing this are riding with their team jersey's on! How stupid is that?

Chris, I find it irrelevant that land managers are not getting complaints about poor trail ettiquette of mountain bikers. I'm sorry, but just because they aren't hearing about it doesn't mean it isn't happening. Look at the width of the trails, especially sections of Sidewinder which gets very little hiking use as compared to mountain bikes - this is not happening because there's too many dogs and hikers out there. It is us and we must do something about it.

I'd happily volunteer to sit at a table. Its pretty obvious that trying to hold interventions, either by saying something or holding ground while these folks head off trail to avoid you, is just going to get the blood pressure up - and I'm usually heading out there to relax after a long day at work...

matt
I"m hoping the OP would be willing to sit at a table and put his $$ where his mouth is.

formica
 

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smilycook said:
Is April 23rd, I will find out in a day or two if we get permission.
I'll be in Vega$ that weekend (I need to win some big $ for a Turner 5 Spot!!!). WOOHOO!!!! BTW...our sister store in Henderson is having a demo day on the 24th at www.BootlegCanyon.org and I'm gonna try to make that. I hope I make it back into Vega$ in one piece!
:eek:

Anyhoo...if other dates become available later this spring...I'd like to help out.

HOWEVER....

My only real concern is that if your average Joe sees a SWIMBA booth, and then realizes it's a MTB organization, they may either ignore the information being presented cuz they feel it may not apply to 'em (which is definately applicable to all Foothills users) or feel put off by a bunch of MTB'ers trying to "takeover" the Foothills. IMNSHO...I just think a Ridge to Rivers booth would be more appropriate.

Well however it's done...I do hope it's positively received by all Foothills users. Hopefully danK and others can get the word out on what the mission of this booth is and interest is generated.

And FWIW...I think a booth may need to be set up in the parking lot off of Military Reserve Road across from the cemetary.

Nick
 

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What exactly is the rule for yielding to an uphill user?

If I'm coming down Lower Hulls and I see a hiker or biker coming up. I'll come to a complete stop and give that person as much room as possible.

But if I'm coming down Kestrel and someone else is coming up...if it's wide enough...I'll slow down and give that person as much room as possible, but I won't come to a complete stop. If there are kids or dogs involved, then I'll stop.

Last summer I rode with a gal that was on a local team that shall remain nameless and she was telling me that there was an unwritten rule that if the downhill rider had enough room to not expect them to stop since they earned the climb up to the top.

Nick
 

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BelaySlave said:
What exactly is the rule for yielding to an uphill user?

Last summer I rode with a gal that was on a local team that shall remain nameless and she was telling me that there was an unwritten rule that if the downhill rider had enough room to not expect them to stop since they earned the climb up to the top.

Nick
This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about that gets me so annoyed. The BS about earning it just doesn't cut it. If I'm coming up the trail, I *am* earning my right of way to the trail - it doesn't go both ways. I presume that this attitude amoung local racers and hot shots is fairly common since it seems that it is the more intense riders who are the most likely to pull stuff like this. I don't think this is as much of a problem with the uneducated masses - at least from my perception - rather one of the seemingly "entitled" minority who doesn't feel the need to follow common courtesy, stop, and let the uphil rider pass.

matt
 

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Attitudes can be a problem. When yielding to an uphiller,

If there is room for two bikes, I slow down and pull to the outside of the trail. If there is only room for one rider, I stop and move completely off the trail.

In fact, sometimes, I stop, fall over, then move completely off the trail. :D

I have to agree that, whenever I've been blasted off a trail, it didn't seem to be by beginners. Last summer, I got passed on a singletrack section at Red Tail (the steep, off-camber part) without even an "on your left". The same rider then proceeded to blast downhill (good rider, too) and almost run down a lady on foot and her two dogs. My friends and I stopped and tried to convince her that we don't all ride like that.

Everybody likes to ride fast, but I don't understand why some jerks seem to think they are above proper trail etiquette.

TF
 

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Wandervans
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I saw that

BelaySlave said:
In today's Local section of the Statesman on the backpage, Dr. Collins has a lil' sidebar about MTB'ers needing to slow down when coming downhill.

Nick
I though the tone was a little too negative and did not really provide any positive suggestions.

Chris
 

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Wandervans
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We are on..

For April 23rd from the morning till afternoon at camelsback or the bottom of hulls.

So far we have Terry can anyone else put in a couple of hours. I am suppose to lead a ride at 10am for SWIMBA so I can setup and work an hour or so.

Let me know what times you can volenteer.

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'm in. Not sure what hours on the 23rd will work for me until my wife's work schedule comes out, but even if I have to get a sitter I'll be available at some point. Similar for the SWIMBA meeting on the 20th -- if I don't have kid duty I'll be there.

Adam
 
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