[joecalder]

I just got a frame w/ a 5th air (I have read all posts, this is a new question), and When I connect pump (brand new "buzzy's pollinator") no air registers at any point from when I connect the pump untill it is bottomed on the threads on the shock. I can add air to the shock, but It only takes 3 or so strokes to get the correct psi (I am 220, so I use about 120 IFP and 150 main). The shock feels great so far, but I am wondering whether or not my pump is bad, or if there is something goofy with the shock, b/c It doesn't make sense to get it from "0" psi all the way up to 150 in 3 pumps.

Another thing I tried, is after I hit the release valve on the pump, then took it off (pump still reading zero), I stuck my finger onto the valve core to see if any air was left in the main chamber, and sure enough, a bunch of air is coming out. Then, to get it back to the right feeling, I have to keep pumping up to 150, hitting the release button on the pump, and keep going until the shock is as firm as it was originally.

So am I correct in thinking that my pump is bad, or what? Thanks for any help in advance. For anyone who is looking at buying this shock, it does work GREAT. I am just being careful.

 

[.thumper.]

You are correct in thinking that your pump is bad.

 

[joecalder]

yeah, i guess it must be a bad pump...

but has anyone else had this particular problem, and found the pump to be the source, or is there something else I should check into?

 

[frankenbike]

Your pump head does not mate well to the air valve on the 5th Elem. The PSI reading you are getting is probaby just the pressure in the hose and not the shock itself because air is not properly being pumped into the 5th Elem.

I had a similar problem with my existing pump when trying to inflate mine. What you need is something similar to those "deluxe" shock pumps like this one pictured:

It has a valve depressor that pushes down deeper (red part on the pump head in the picture).

I had problems with my old plain jane shock pump on a friend's 5th Element rear shock and on my Manitou Minute's SPV chamber as well. Even Manitou's "SPV Shock Pump" did not work, funny that their own pump doesn't work on their own shocks. My plain jane shock works well on my Rock Shox forks and rear shocks though. So go figure. Just a different valve head that is slightly deeper I suppose on the 5th Elem and Manitou stuff.

You can get the above shock from most mail order joints for around $15-$25

 

[joecalder]

Sweet!

Thanks, frankenbike. That makes total sense to me. I can get air into the shock, but it is not going in correctly, and I am betting that even when it does, I am not getting the proper reading.
Any idea what brand that guy is?

 

[joecalder]

crazy idea...

I wonder if there is a way to make the valve core on the shock (or preferrably the pump, since 40 bucks is a lot easier to get back than 350) a little longer, so that they engage properly? Since I already threw away the pump's packaging and receipt, I might as well give it a go. I'll post pics and details if this works.

 

[Hecubus]

There is nothing wrong with your pump or your shock. The problem is the valve core is screwed it way to deep on the shock. This is pretty common with 5th's. The pump nozzle doesn't go in deep enough to open the valve. The pressure you're reading is whats it the pump not the shock. You can get a core removal tool and slightly unscrew the valve until it engages. Or you can get one of those delux pumps with the adjustable heads. If you can find it try to get a progressive pump. They pin that opens the valve is a little longer and opens it up correctly.

 

[joecalder]

Good Call.

I'll try that and post whether or not it works. Thanks!

 

[frankenbike]

Thanks, frankenbike. That makes total sense to me. I can get air into the shock, but it is not going in correctly, and I am betting that even when it does, I am not getting the proper reading.
Any idea what brand that guy is?

I use the Supergo brand deluxe pump. It's on sale for around $16 or so right now. It's nice, way nicer than my Giant and Manitou shock pumps.

http://www.supergo.com/profile.cfm?LPROD_ID=26079&lsubcat_id=7658&lcat_id=7608&referpage=

 

[bulletbob]

Performance Hurricane...

I use the Supergo brand deluxe pump. It's on sale for around $16 or so right now. It's nice, way nicer than my Giant and Manitou shock pumps.

http://www.supergo.com/profile.cfm?LPROD_ID=26079&lsubcat_id=7658&lcat_id=7608&referpage=

...300psi on sale for 15 bucks at Performance bicycles.

 

[frankenbike]

...300psi on sale for 15 bucks at Performance bicycles.

It looks like the Performance Hurricane and Supergo Deluxe Shock Pump are the same pumps, just different colors and names. Makes sense since Performance owns Supergo.

Performance Hurricane

Supergo Deluxe Shock Pump

 

[joecalder]

New Solution -- problem solved!

First off, Unscrewing the OEM valve core a little bit to try and make contact with the pump was not enough. So, I replaced the valve core with one that was probably half a millimeter longer than the OEM one. This was still not sufficient, but a step in the right direction.
After thinking about it a bit, and scratching my head trying to think of a way to use the pump I had already bought, I came up with a solution.

Since the only thing remaining that was keeping the pump's needle from properly hitting the valve core was the actual part that threads onto the Shock's Schraeder valve, I realized that grinding some of the metal off of that part of the pump would do the trick, without causing any damage. and that worked perfectly!
If you look at most pumps, on the part that spins to thread onto the shock's valve, there is a little section about a millimeter deep that has different (outer) thickness than the rest of the spinning part, and I ground most of this off, which let me thread the pump deeper onto the Shock's schraeder valve.

Hope this helps someone else in my situation!

 

[frankenbike]

Good to hear all ended well and you didn't have to open the wallet to pay for another shock pump

 

[006_007]

First off, Unscrewing the OEM valve core a little bit to try and make contact with the pump was not enough. So, I replaced the valve core with one that was probably half a millimeter longer than the OEM one. This was still not sufficient, but a step in the right direction.
After thinking about it a bit, and scratching my head trying to think of a way to use the pump I had already bought, I came up with a solution.

Since the only thing remaining that was keeping the pump's needle from properly hitting the valve core was the actual part that threads onto the Shock's Schraeder valve, I realized that grinding some of the metal off of that part of the pump would do the trick, without causing any damage. and that worked perfectly!
If you look at most pumps, on the part that spins to thread onto the shock's valve, there is a little section about a millimeter deep that has different (outer) thickness than the rest of the spinning part, and I ground most of this off, which let me thread the pump deeper onto the Shock's schraeder valve.

Hope this helps someone else in my situation!

Cool great fix.

When in doubt, take a grinder to it.....

 

[Hecubus]

Thats pretty cool. You just need to do one little experiment to make sure everything is actually working right. The reason the valve cores are set so unusually deep is to ensure the valve closes long before the seal with the pump is broken when removing it. The reason for this is the IFP air volume is extremely low. That means even the slightest leak that happens disconnecting the pump because the seal seperated before the valve was able to fully shut will pretty much cause the IFP to deflate entirely or close to it. This ensures the valve is shut long before the pumps seal disconnects.

What you need to do is pressurerize the IFP, remove the pump and compare pressures. When you reconnect the pump, air in the chamber will escape to pressurize the shock and equalize the pressure. A rather large drop in pressure will be noticed as a result. This is perfectly normal due to the tiny volume of the IFP chamber. It will loose around 30-50psi depending on the pump used. Its not a leak as commonly mistaken. Basically what you need to do is fill the IFP to close to its highest pressure and slowly unscrew and remove the pump. Then reconnect the pump again. It should then read about 30-50 psi less than what you put in or close to that. Refill the shock back up again and repeat a few times. The pressure it reads when reconnecting should always be consistant. If it reads wildly varying pressures when reconnecting that means air is leaking out when the pump is disconnected and you'll have to try another pump after all.

 

[joecalder]

all is good

Thanks for the heads up Hecubus, but I'm so anal retentive that I've already checked on that, just didn't put it in the write-up since there are many other posts that explain this if people do a search (or read their manual from progressive!). But it's working great. The main variable I have changed (the one that matters most anyway) is to allow the pump to thread on to the schraeder valve of the shock to the proper depth. The extra length of the valve core is so miniscule, that I don't really think it's an issue, just gives me peace of mind that it's a brand new valve core (I bought a leftover '04 frame and shock). Thanks and get RAD!