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Assegai vs Minion

4257 Views 16 Replies 13 Participants Last post by ehfour, Nov 12, 2021

dwyooaj

Discussion Starter · Nov 5, 2021

am I the only one in the world not super impressed with the Assegai when comapred to DHF/DHF clones? socal dirt.
Side/cornering grip seems somewhat lacking, and rolls slower. i guess I jibe better with tread patterns with fewer, larger knobs and no intermediate knobs.

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Impetus

· #2 · Nov 5, 2021

I can see how if you have dirt, one might like the DHF better. To me it feels squirmy and vague on the loose-over-hard kitty litter and fist-sized baby heads that is the only dirt Southern AZ has to offer. For this, and Sedona I like the Assegai MUCH more.
I did use a Vittoria Mazza (DHF-ish) up North in Flag, and far east White Mtns and it worked well, but there's actual dirt there. There was also 3" of snow and slush, but I digress.
I'd mount the Mazza again, with a Martello on the rear, if going up north.

I know lots of guys claim the DHF is the best dry loose over hard tire ever made. I guess I'm just not steezy enough and need my security-blanket mid-shoulder knobs.

Reactions: 2

Nat

· #3 · Nov 5, 2021

It sounds like the DHF suits you better. They haven't discontinued it so you're in luck.

Reactions: 2

dysfunction

· #4 · Nov 5, 2021 (Edited)

I like those mid knobs too, on those janky hiking hard turn switchbacks.

dwyooaj

Discussion Starter · #5 · Nov 5, 2021

Plenty of rocks here too.

MTB Engineer

· #6 · Nov 5, 2021

it’s been a while since I’ve ridden a DHF but rode an Assegai this past summer and I really didn’t like it. Extremely draggy and just feels “heavy” especially on soft over hardpack. Replaced it with a Dissector and I really like that tyre in the front! Rolls well and offers total confidence in it gripping when needed.

justwan naride

· #7 · Nov 5, 2021 (Edited)

Long time fan of the DHF here. Later moved on to Magic Mary and currently on an Assegai. Talking about front use only.

Rim width is critical on the Assegai. The profile looks very different on my 35mm internal width rim vs both my mates' 30mm. Personally as an allround front it's the best I've tried so far. Not perfect everywhere but great in many conditions. Maxxterra rolls faster than MM Soft, especially noticed on hardpack trails. Braking considerably better than DHF. Edge to edge transition smoother. I can lean with more confidence than ever before. DHF was very good at this too, but needed more commitment. MM had more braking bite and overall traction but not as stable during turns. I suspect 2.35-2.4 MM works better on around 30mm rim width. Rolling resistance and noise were a bit more as well.

In my mind DHF= a great tyre for skilled riders in mostly soft/loose conditions while Assegai= a tyre that can save your @$$ on unfamiliar terrain or when you are so fatigued that your skills diminish. MM beats both when terrain is utter chaos.

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Cerberus75

· #8 · Nov 5, 2021

DHF and HR are when mostly hard, loose over hard and dry especially if trails are wide. Assegai is good in off camber roots, damp or tight trails.

Reactions: 1

shadowsports

· #9 · Nov 5, 2021

Everyone has different opinions about tires. Terrain you ride, rim width, inflation pressure. I have Assegai's now F/R. No issues. Use what works best for you..

Reactions: 3

Impetus

· #10 · Nov 5, 2021

MTB Engineer said:
it’s been a while since I’ve ridden a DHF but rode an Assegai this past summer and I really didn’t like it. Extremely draggy and just feels “heavy” especially on soft over hardpack. Replaced it with a Dissector and I really like that tyre in the front! Rolls well and offers total confidence in it gripping when needed.

It's funny how perception differs between riders. Coming from DHF to Assegai I immediately noted how the front end felt 'planted' and predictable. I appreciated the 'slower' handling.
Maybe it's growing up motocrossing and desert racing, but I'm a 'plow and pray' kinda rider.

Reactions: 1

Notthatbryan

· #11 · Nov 5, 2021

I found the DHF more confidence inspiring to me than the Assegai. I frequently had small slides mid turn with the Assegai that I don't have with the DHF. The Assegai would wash out and slide a couple inches, I was always able to catch it but it felt very sketchy. With a DHF on the same trails I don't have the same washing / slides happening.
Same compound and sidewalls on both.

TylerVernon

· #12 · Nov 5, 2021

I've thought about mounting an Assegai and cutting out that big center knob to make an Assegai22. That thing just gets in the way and causes more rolling resistance. I have one laying around here but it's a Maxxterra and only came to 2.35" wide. Maybe I will get around to it.

cookieMonster

· #13 · Nov 6, 2021

justwan naride said:
MM beats both when terrain is utter chaos.

Yes. Or when riding raw trails that aren’t packed by thousands of riders a year. Only the Shorty can hang with the Magic Mary for nasty fall-line type riding.

So much depends on conditions.

I still use Minions on my hardtail because that is the bike I use on well-travelled trails that tend to be packed hard with either hero dirt when wet or loose over hard, but not deep loose material. I have started to favor the DHR II on both the front and rear for its better braking. DHF is still legit though.

People talk about the “vague” transition zone but I don’t think they’re leaning enough. That groove is what allows the cornering lugs to bite deeper and hang on. Tires that have transition knobs might be more predictable but those transition knobs spread out the forces to where the real cornering lugs don’t penetrate as much. Tires like the MM and Shorty mitigate this by just having more space between lugs.

I did ride a hardpacked trail the other day that was moist and frozen and my MM/Shorty combo was squirming all over the place. Minions or Assegais would have been a lot better in those conditions.

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ocnLogan

· #14 · Nov 6, 2021

cookieMonster said:
Yes. Or when riding raw trails that aren’t packed by thousands of riders a year. Only the Shorty can hang with the Magic Mary for nasty fall-line type riding.

So much depends on conditions.

I still use Minions on my hardtail because that is the bike I use on well-travelled trails that tend to be packed hard with either hero dirt when wet or loose over hard, but not deep loose material. I have started to favor the DHR II on both the front and rear for its better braking. DHF is still legit though.

People talk about the “vague” transition zone but I don’t think they’re leaning enough. That groove is what allows the cornering lugs to bite deeper and hang on. Tires that have transition knobs might be more predictable but those transition knobs spread out the forces to where the real cornering lugs don’t penetrate as much. Tires like the MM and Shorty mitigate this by just having more space between lugs.

I did ride a hardpacked trail the other day that was moist and frozen and my MM/Shorty combo was squirming all over the place. Minions or Assegais would have been a lot better in those conditions.

I agree. I find it interesting that a lot of people seem to consider the DHF a wet weather/soft conditions tire. In my mind it’s much better at hardback.

I do find the DHF isn’t great on more moderate speed/more natural trails, simply because you can’t always get a high enough lean angle on some of the more awkward stuff.

All that said, if you like the shorty and MM, you may want to try a WTB Verdict. It seems almost halfway between them.

And although the verdict doesn’t have transition knobs, it’s shoulder knobs are much taller, so vague zone on the DHF that I noticed on some of the less extreme trails, isn’t noticeable on the verdict. So its the best wet/loose - hero dirt tire that I’ve tried (although admittedly, I’ve not tried them all).

dwyooaj

Discussion Starter · #15 · Nov 10, 2021 (Edited)

ocnLogan said:
I agree. I find it interesting that a lot of people seem to consider the DHF a wet weather/soft conditions tire. In my mind it’s much better at hardback.

I do find the DHF isn’t great on more moderate speed/more natural trails, simply because you can’t always get a high enough lean angle on some of the more awkward stuff.

All that said, if you like the shorty and MM, you may want to try a WTB Verdict. It seems almost halfway between them.

And although the verdict doesn’t have transition knobs, it’s shoulder knobs are much taller, so vague zone on the DHF that I noticed on some of the less extreme trails, isn’t noticeable on the verdict. So its the best wet/loose - hero dirt tire that I’ve tried (although admittedly, I’ve not tried them all).

The verdict is the absolute best in soft, loose and wet conditions. But on clean rock and hardpack it sucks, side knobs are way too squirmy and unsupported so its unpredictable. Which is most of my riding...so I didnt get another one. The Minion has worked well for me in dry and wet/loose conditions, but def better in the dry

Reactions: 1

dwyooaj

Discussion Starter · #16 · Nov 10, 2021

Notthatbryan said:
I found the DHF more confidence inspiring to me than the Assegai. I frequently had small slides mid turn with the Assegai that I don't have with the DHF. The Assegai would wash out and slide a couple inches, I was always able to catch it but it felt very sketchy. With a DHF on the same trails I don't have the same washing / slides happening.
Same compound and sidewalls on both.

Haha, exact;ly the same for me!

Reactions: 1

ehfour

· #17 · Nov 12, 2021

As much as I love the Assegai- I found it a bit vague like others here. I found that it worked really well for me in the steep/deep technical descents

Going from Maxterror Assegai to a Maxgrip DHF has been eye opening. What I've found in additional grip- wet/dry on-camber and off-camber far outweighs any weigh penalty, as a matter of fact the MG DHF has around the same R/R as the MT Assegai

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