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Alpenglow, that's 6 mins I won't get back.

And to save everyone else the trouble:

Glimpse
Wheelsets
Ellsworth Carbon bikes.

There's more I'm sure, but that should cover at least half of it. ;)

JmZ
 

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I'm UTarded
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101 Posts
Alpenglow said:
I used to like this site, but it has gone from unbiased product reviews to MBA type reviews.

http://www.feedthehabit.com/mountain-biking/ellsworth-bikes-made-in-the-usa-why-should-you-care/
Ouch! Can you point out some specific articles to call me out on? Sorry to hear you feel that way...

Also... yeah, people might be tired of all the enviro spin, and you might hate TE or Ellsworth in general (prolly since this is a Turner forum), but I applaud him for doing something about it and standing up for good, sustainable business practices. No matter what, he's making bikes and there will be by-products and waste, but he's being open and conscious of everything his business is doing.

People will always find a way to be a hater. I'd love to hear what other companies are doing in this regard, but there's not much out there to speak of. I'm sure DT is making great strides here as well, I just don't know the details.
 

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Elitest thrill junkie
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powderboy said:
he's being open and conscious of everything his business is doing.
I don't believe that for one minute. TE stooped to saying that he uses "buddists" to build wheels, and that he believes in US manufacturing (go look up the Ellsworth "Glimpse", made in taiwan like his wheels). I don't believe for one minute that TE is being open about his business, he is never open about his business, and he has no problem telling less than the truth or using falsehoods to better it.

examples;

1. Bikes weren't invented 300 years ago, you might want to look into that. Next video will probably be about how ICT was invented in 1708 by your ancestors and engraved into golden plates.
2. So, you're all about USA manufacturing? What about those wheels your in your video about the awesomest wheels ever (and the Ellsworth 'glipse', look it up) ? Aren't those "buddhists" in Taiwan?
3. Carbon dust causes black lung? Thats hilarious. I guess thats why they shut down all those carbon frame factories for the olympics to clean up the air around beijing, right?
4. What were you doing filming in china anyway tony? not too many people go to south china for a vacation... I can't wait for the "we don't sand carbon and we are the best" video.
5. Those windmills and solar panels: is that on your manufacturing plant? Oh, right, its not. So you are kind of being misleading here... You talk "US manufacturing", then state that you generate power from wind and the sun to have a zero energy use. But that isn't at a manufacturing site.
6. ICT is a 4 bar linkage, its pretty dumb to be saying "all those links" about other 4 bar link systems. I mean, unless you haven't figured that out yet...
7. Who is ICT "internationally recognized" by as the most efficient suspension? Thats a pretty broad claim, I'm guessing its c.r.a.p
 

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powderboy said:
Ouch! Can you point out some specific articles to call me out on? Sorry to hear you feel that way...

Also... yeah, people might be tired of all the enviro spin, and you might hate TE or Ellsworth in general (prolly since this is a Turner forum), but I applaud him for doing something about it and standing up for good, sustainable business practices. No matter what, he's making bikes and there will be by-products and waste, but he's being open and conscious of everything his business is doing.

People will always find a way to be a hater. I'd love to hear what other companies are doing in this regard, but there's not much out there to speak of. I'm sure DT is making great strides here as well, I just don't know the details.
it's kind of funny that the solar panels and turbines are all installed at the san diego facillity where the bikes are assembled but there are no enviro measures shown at the washinton fabrication facility where most of the power usage will be. is taiwan, where his wheelsets are built, better than china as far as enviromental policies are concerned. i do't think i could say that the article was hard hitting journalism, more like marketing spin. did you really look into the enviromental claims tony made? how can you compare his practices to anyone else's when you seem to be just taking his word on his enviro practices?
 

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I'm UTarded
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In fairness to TE... my conversations with him have been open and forthright. I don't have any reason to question his word or his integrity, but I do recognize that he's pretty darn outspoken and stubborn in many ways. But, what business owner wouldn't be? And what business owner wouldn't be a teeny bit protective of what they have built with their blood, sweat and tears.

I can definitely hear your questioning my research into other brands and getting all sides of the story, but I'm not a paid journalist... it's a blog. :) Some stories are more thorough than others, but I should take that into consideration when compiling articles like this one.

I just found the story interesting enough to share with my readers who can make their own decisions. I called out Ellsworth specifically because they are talking about these things. I haven't seen any other discussions going on with other manufacturers, so without calling them, I took a "check out what Ellsworth is doing" approach.

If you know for sure that some of the counter-claims that have been made are 100% verifiably true, then bring them to the table. Otherwise it ends up being a "he said, she said" kind of deal.

Like I said, I don't have any reason to question TE's ethics, but I should be more scrutinizing, I suppose.

AND... yeah, the bicycle invention date did make me chuckle, but maybe Columbus rode a bike around the Santa Maria? :)


ALSO... why is this in the Turner forum anyway? Shouldn't we be talking about the new Sultan, RFX or other things more Turner-esque? ;-)
 

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I'm UTarded
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qbert2000 said:
it's kind of funny that the solar panels and turbines are all installed at the san diego facillity where the bikes are assembled but there are no enviro measures shown at the washinton fabrication facility where most of the power usage will be. is taiwan, where his wheelsets are built, better than china as far as enviromental policies are concerned. i do't think i could say that the article was hard hitting journalism, more like marketing spin. did you really look into the enviromental claims tony made? how can you compare his practices to anyone else's when you seem to be just taking his word on his enviro practices?
Like most people, I'm sure he purchases wind credit or geo-thermal energy credit to offset the use at other facilities. Many ski resorts purchase enough wind credits to cover their energy usage to be "energy neutral", but it doesn't necessarily mean "on-site energy neutral".

And... your questioning my journalism... point taken. If I had the budget to travel to Ellsworth, Turner, Intense, Moots, etc. and audit their facilities, I would have gladly. But alas, it's a blog and not my full-time job. Someday... someday. :)

I do appreciate the call to "step up" though... hopefully I can continue to improve the content over time. If you click back to the old stuff from 1999 or 2000, you'll see that it has improved, most definitely.
 

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Roy said:
Good grief, you must be new to mtbr.

Ya think?
My BS meter has been turned on many times by stuff that Tony has mentioned, but, like I said every business owner has the right to toot his own horn.

TE is a polarizing individual for sure, thanks for the reminder that I should dig a little deeper.

One of the funniest TE-isms that I recall is how he pointed out the new Niner RIP 9 at the Outdoor Demo and specifically called it complex and worthless. I just bit my tongue because I had just gotten off the new RIP and absolutely loved it.

Anyway... thanks for the beat-down everyone... I do appreciate the criticism and can take it like a man.
 

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Elitest thrill junkie
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powderboy said:
One of the funniest TE-isms that I recall is how he pointed out the new Niner RIP 9 at the Outdoor Demo and specifically called it complex and worthless. I just bit my tongue because I had just gotten off the new RIP and absolutely loved it.
Well, that's just it. There are very few manufacturers that take opportunities to rip on other manufacturer's designs. Why is it "ok" for Tony Ellsworth (as the face and owner of Ellsworth) to do this? The RIP has just as many "links" as any Ellsworth ICT bike, but as most of us know, that's not really the issue. The issue is how Tony slams other bikes and manufacturers (go watch the "ellsworth advantage" video on his website). WTF?
 

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powderboy, we realize you don't have a massive travel budget that allows you to check out in detail the enviro mfg practices of various companies. but in your blog post you basically said (i'm paraphrasing from memory): "OK i haven't checked into the practices of any other bike companies but here's what Ellsworth is saying and it sure sounds like they are the leader even though I haven't checked out the other companies or consulted an independent assessment but I have a strong hunch that Ellsworth is the green leader."

I don't really care about ellsworth and i don't read much about them at all but even I had heard that their 'wind power' propaganda was only referring to their san diego office facility.

even from your armchair you could have checked into these ellsworth claims or at least asked him some skeptical questions.

there's a reason teh term 'greenwashing' was coined -- lotsa companies are guilty of it.

Want a contrast? check out the green manufacturing information of Chris King. thorough, believable, and interesting for anyone who buys things made of aluminum and steel.
 

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frorider said:
powderboy, we realize you don't have a massive travel budget that allows you to check out in detail the enviro mfg practices of various companies. but in your blog post you basically said (i'm paraphrasing from memory): "OK i haven't checked into the practices of any other bike companies but here's what Ellsworth is saying and it sure sounds like they are the leader even though I haven't checked out the other companies or consulted an independent assessment but I have a strong hunch that Ellsworth is the green leader."

I don't really care about ellsworth and i don't read much about them at all but even I had heard that their 'wind power' propaganda was only referring to their san diego office facility.

even from your armchair you could have checked into these ellsworth claims or at least asked him some skeptical questions.

there's a reason teh term 'greenwashing' was coined -- lotsa companies are guilty of it.

Want a contrast? check out the green manufacturing information of Chris King. thorough, believable, and interesting for anyone who buys things made of aluminum and steel.
A pretty loose paraphrase, but I get the point if that's how it came across. I did look around at many other bike manufacturers and didn't find much. I know Rocky has a bit, but that's about all I could find. Thanks for the feedback... Definitely noted.

I'll check out what Chris King is doing... I know they are solid in that regard.

NOTE: I have made some modifications to the article, so if you've come into this late, you may wonder what the fuss is all about. I still believe that Ellsworth is doing a lot of things right and I'm stoked that TE is dedicated to sustainability. It just seems like a lot of people want to throw him under the bus and I guess I'm out of the loop as to why.

Thanks for everyone's feedback and posts. Much appreciated and no harm no foul.
 

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Brass Nipples!
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Jayem said:
(and the Ellsworth 'glipse', look it up)
I looked up glipse and found this in the Urban Dictionary:

Skipse Kai Glipse - 1 definition - Greek. Literally translates to "bend and lick ". Basically equivalent to "blow me", "eat me", "suck it", etc

Great name for a bike, I think. More like what I'd expect from Cove, though.
 

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Elitest thrill junkie
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Bob the Wheelbuilder said:
I looked up glipse and found this in the Urban Dictionary:

Skipse Kai Glipse - 1 definition - Greek. Literally translates to "bend and lick ". Basically equivalent to "blow me", "eat me", "suck it", etc

Great name for a bike, I think. More like what I'd expect from Cove, though.
I lost an "m" somewhere. :thumbsup:
 
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