I obtained a set of 32 used DT spokes. I built them up in a wheel along with 4 I had on hand. One of them broke within the first 50 miles and a second broke within the first 100 miles. Both broke in the center. You only see this type of break when there is a defect in the wire generally an inclusion. I have found several entire wheels full of spokes with this type of defect. I should mention I volunteer at the coops and have worked on hundreds of wheels. Most of the spokes with this type of defect are generic low magnetic stainless steel with no markings on the head. DT also uses a low magnetic stainless steel. If they are counterfeit I expect they come from this company. I will keep the public informed if they are any more breaks with a comment on my flickr account.
Are there counterfeit DT spokes?
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It can be done but the first paragraph seems relevant to this situation.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/reusing-spokes.html
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/reusing-spokes.html
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I would not buy used spokes, period. You have no idea of their history, condition, age, etc.
Good spokes can be had quite affordably, why deal with that headache?
I've reused my own spokes from wheels that were less than a year old with no issues, but they were in nearly new condition and a known quantity.
Good spokes can be had quite affordably, why deal with that headache?
I've reused my own spokes from wheels that were less than a year old with no issues, but they were in nearly new condition and a known quantity.
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Yeah I've reused my own several times but I wouldn't buy them from someone I didn't know.
Also weird that of all the broken spokes I've seen or fixed I can't remember seeing any broken in the middle except for wheels that were subject to some sort of catastrophic event.
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I've broken real DT spokes in the middle a bunch of times...they were not counterfeit...
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Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
You lost me with this thread...
Spokes are very cheap, just buy new ones and move on. You're spending more time in this thread by asking to troubleshoot used spokes and making statements that have no value, than just getting new spokes, doing the wheel build right and riding your bike.
What's next, you're going to say used nipples are counterfeit too? And used tires don't have the proper thread?
Spokes are very cheap, just buy new ones and move on. You're spending more time in this thread by asking to troubleshoot used spokes and making statements that have no value, than just getting new spokes, doing the wheel build right and riding your bike.
What's next, you're going to say used nipples are counterfeit too? And used tires don't have the proper thread?
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FWIW I just went out to my garage and looked at 5-6 DT spokes I have from reputable sources, are new, and spares from several wheel builds.
Some of the spokes have a very clean/clear DT stamp and there is one that looks similar to the right-hand spoke head in your second photo.
The rest are somewhere in between those two points in terms of stamp clarity so while it is possible that there could be DT counterfeit spokes out there I think it is more likely that used spokes are the culprit.
All of the DT spokes (2-3 maybe) I have had break over the years have broken in the middle thinner section so that isn't unusual I think.
Some of the spokes have a very clean/clear DT stamp and there is one that looks similar to the right-hand spoke head in your second photo.
The rest are somewhere in between those two points in terms of stamp clarity so while it is possible that there could be DT counterfeit spokes out there I think it is more likely that used spokes are the culprit.
All of the DT spokes (2-3 maybe) I have had break over the years have broken in the middle thinner section so that isn't unusual I think.
There are counterfeit everything, so spokes would definitely be faked. If someone can make a buck they most certainly will and most certainly do sell them. China and other asian countries, that is an industry into themselves, Counterfeit products, everything from fake vehicles rims, to fake brake pads, to entire stores that are faked.
Did DT ever use the LH stamping? I couldn't tell you, but--the machinery that does it is stupendously expensive, and I doubt they would have changed it.
See this chart of spoke head brandings: Spoke Head Identification Chart
That said, even "counterfeit" spokes should work fine, unless they are made from cheap metal...you can only screw up extruding steel wire so many ways. When you add butting/blading, more can go wrong, but that's a moot point, here.
An aside: magnetism of spokes is low if they are made of stainless, anyway, due to the manufacturing process. Pretty much any spoke that IS highly magnetic is made of plain (galvanized) steel.
See this chart of spoke head brandings: Spoke Head Identification Chart
That said, even "counterfeit" spokes should work fine, unless they are made from cheap metal...you can only screw up extruding steel wire so many ways. When you add butting/blading, more can go wrong, but that's a moot point, here.
An aside: magnetism of spokes is low if they are made of stainless, anyway, due to the manufacturing process. Pretty much any spoke that IS highly magnetic is made of plain (galvanized) steel.
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China has an interesting relationship to intellectual property laws so one could setup a fake spoke manufacturing operation but the challenge would be to get uptake somewhere for those fake spokes and that would only leave less than reputable parties as the market for those fake spokes.
Doesn't seem to be much money to be made there compared to other knock-offs to be honest.
An interesting read is Poorly Made in China by Paul Midler - https://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-China-Insiders-Production-ebook/dp/B004G5Z2A8/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=china+manufacturing&qid=1565620581&s=gateway&sr=8-2
The book doesn't demonize China but looks more at the give and take of a manufacturer wanting to make additional bucks by making things in China and the cultural and real politik side of doing that in China.
Doesn't help the OP but in my book Occam's Razor says that the simplest explanation is clapped out spokes versus Dee Tee Swass - almost as good but less expensive! - which is possible but seems improbable.
Another example would be Chinese made DT compatible star ratchets. Very similar, might be the same factory (or not), and there is a thread under Drivetrain about people using these with mostly positive results.
I guess the meta there is what constitutes a brand if manufacturing is allocated out to third parties (see rims, Carbon or frames, Carbon) and buying XYZ Inc versus Wazzou Corp are the same product with different price points versus me selling you a non-legit knock-off designed to look and feel like the real deal without the work and actual manufacturing equivalency.
Doesn't seem to be much money to be made there compared to other knock-offs to be honest.
An interesting read is Poorly Made in China by Paul Midler - https://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-China-Insiders-Production-ebook/dp/B004G5Z2A8/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=china+manufacturing&qid=1565620581&s=gateway&sr=8-2
The book doesn't demonize China but looks more at the give and take of a manufacturer wanting to make additional bucks by making things in China and the cultural and real politik side of doing that in China.
Doesn't help the OP but in my book Occam's Razor says that the simplest explanation is clapped out spokes versus Dee Tee Swass - almost as good but less expensive! - which is possible but seems improbable.
Another example would be Chinese made DT compatible star ratchets. Very similar, might be the same factory (or not), and there is a thread under Drivetrain about people using these with mostly positive results.
I guess the meta there is what constitutes a brand if manufacturing is allocated out to third parties (see rims, Carbon or frames, Carbon) and buying XYZ Inc versus Wazzou Corp are the same product with different price points versus me selling you a non-legit knock-off designed to look and feel like the real deal without the work and actual manufacturing equivalency.
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No you cannot say that without evidence
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