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I think "someone" altered that quote. I didn't post any of what you have me quoted as saying.

This is what I posted...
"When I hear the term perfectly groomed my mind assumes smooth flow trail. I live and ride in the NY/NJ area and most trails are predominantly covered with rock and roots.
My Tallboy is my only mtb and 75% of the time it is all I need. "
Yep, sorry my fault, was a different poster. Reposted below

I think most of you are over-car’d for your grocery getter and commuter.

CoO is much lower on a geo metro and just as fast on legal streets.
Hmmm... What do you drive?
 

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I only mentioned money because it's a real constraint for some people. Regretting a choice means a lot less when you can afford to correct it.
On the other hand, if you only have X amount to spend and you spend that amount on something that gets you riding, there's also a sense of relief knowing you're on something that that's the best you could do.

Those of us in the middle probably have a harder time. We can afford a liberal amount if this is what we choose to do with it, but if you make that mistake you speak of, we're not likely to afford to correct it, as you put it. But we have that sense of regret knowing we chose wrong.
 

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Well.....since I don't currently own a dually but am in the market to buy one, I figured it might make sense to find out why some people these days are choosing longer travel bikes on the same trails that others run lesser travel bikes. I fully admit that I'm outta the loop as far as the industry goes now. Not sure what your issue is with me wanting to get other peoples perspectives and make an informed decision.
This was mentioned earlier in the thread, but it bears repeating.

Currently the "penalty" of riding a longer travel bike is much lower than it once was. So you're seeing bikes in all genres gain more suspension travel.
  • Bike designers have figured out how to make bikes with long travel not pedal like you're riding a soggy box spring and mattress up the mountain
    • This is a combination of
      • Minimal, if any pedal bob due to greatly increased anti-squat values in the rear suspension design
      • shorter offset forks, and steeper seat tube angles placing your weight farther forward on the bike while climbing, leading to less wheel flop.
  • Bike weight doesn't move up dramatically between certain steps in travel.
    • IE, a Rockshox Lyrik can run at 140mm, all the way up to 180mm. So the fork weighs almost the same at 140mm, as it does at 180mm (technically the air spring is a different weight, but we're talking single digit grams due to 40mm of alumnium tubing that is maybe 3/8in OD).
      • The real difference is between products.
        • IE, if you can get away with only the SID Ultimate fork instead of a Lyrik you do save like a pound of weight. But that is only available in a small travel range.
    • Same thing with Shocks. A 205x57.5mm, 205x60 and 205x65mm shock are often all the same shock, simply with a travel reduction spacer put into the smaller ones to limit its stroke. And those shocks can be found on bikes that are ~130-170mm of rear travel... yet they weigh just grams different.
    • Brake rotor size might change, but thats pretty inconsequential (like what, 20-40g per rotor, per size larger/smaller)
    • Drivetrain doesn't change weight at all, as most bikes from XC to Enduro run some variation of wide range 1x12 drivetrain.
    • Tires can change the weight of the bike substantially, but most of the time the riding conditions, and speed you ride dictate the tires that you need (ie, even XC racers run mud spikes if they race in the mud).
    • Most bikes have dropper seatposts these days. So again, a short travel bike doesn't really have an advantage in this area.

So, thats why you see a lot of people riding bikes with more travel than they used to. Simply... because it doesn't suck as much as it once did. I mean, if you were choosing between a <insert travel> bike, or a <+10 or 20mm of travel> bike that weighs the same (or very nearly), pedal exactly (or very nearly) the same, and have similar geo. Wouldn't you at least be considering the one the one that lets you more easily travel to the nearest lift accessed bike park without having to rent a bike/enables you to try out those bigger trails in your area you've been thinking of riding? Or at least understand why someone would make that tradeoff, especially if they can only have one bike?

The caveat is that once you go between multiple genres, it becomes more obvious. Which I think is why "downcountry" bikes are becoming pretty popular. As they're really just lightweight trail bikes at this point.

One of the more extreme cases, is when you compare something like the Transition Spur at 120mm of travel, and like 24-26lbs is an honest 5-10lbs lighter than the Transition Sentinel(150mm) or Spire (170mm). But the difference from the Transition Scout (130/140mm travel) to the Sentinel or spire isn't nearly the same jump. More like 1lb or so. The same story plays out across most other brands lineups (Santa Cruz Tallboy, Hightower, Megatower, etc).
 

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Elitest thrill junkie
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Plus, more and more people are buying E-bikes and when you are riding an E-bike, why wouldn't you want more travel when you don't have to work as hard for it?
 

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I think some people think more is better.... obviously its not unless you need it for your terrain.
I think a bunch of people buy bikes for what they think they want to do, not what they actually do. They buy the bike to take to teh bike park, that they have done twice in the last 5 years, instead of for the trail they do every other week that is 30 minutes from their house.
I came here to say this ^.
 

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I came here to say this ^.
Yup, if everyone is just truly honest with themselves, gets their pride out of it, and is open to adjusting...INCLUDING admitting a previous choice may have been a mistake...the World would be a better place.
 

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Longer travel bikes can be as light as a trail bike. Mine is set up like that. I have a Funn Mamba pedal that is cleat one side and flat the other.

During the weekdays, I take advantage of the light weight, clip into the spd, and do uphill intervals. On weekend, I put on 5/10s and go full sent on the longer trails going downhill.

Is definitely overbike for the uphills. But the weight is reasonable, and better than me forking out another few grands for a down country bike. The longer travel bikes are so capable climbing now, and overtime I put lots of light weight parts on it, big bike is no longer an issue except in xc racing scenario.
 

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It's not just marketing. There may not be a lot of difference between individual model years but my 2018 Stumpjumper is a far, far superior bike to my 2010 Stumpjumper. There's no comparison. I recently sold the 2010 after fixing it up and, compared to the 2018, it was almost unridable. Disappointing, actually. And I remember very well how much I liked it when I bought it.

Both are full-suspension with decent forks. The 2010 was a 26er which feels like a kids bike to me now.

Marketing isn't all bad, either. If a company makes a good product that improves your riding experience they have to tell you about it somehow. Sure, they get a little carried away with some of the catch phrases but many things are actually improvements. We are also not robots. You can't sell people something they don't want. Mountain biking is a hobby. Cool new stuff is part of it. I've been on MTBR since 2010 and I think I've noted many times that of all the money on I spend on things like taxes, insurance, professional fees, alimony, mortgage, and dozens of other things for which I am forced to pay, I actually enjoy spending money on bikes, parts, and gear. That's why they call it a hobby. Many of you seem very upset and angry by your hobby. Buy what you can afford by whatever formula you use to determine if it's going to be worth it. Could I buy a full-throttle $12,000 S-Works Enduro? Sure. I could write the check today. I just don't think the extra six grand over what I'm going to end up spending gets me that much.





Bicycle Tire Bicycles--Equipment and supplies Wheel Bicycle wheel
 

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It blows my mind that hobbyists criticize one another over bare minimum requirements. "You don't need that." is a crazy concept to me. I hope those people still use an outhouse and get to work on horseback... even those are luxuries by some standards lol.
 

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It blows my mind that hobbyists criticize one another over bare minimum requirements. "You don't need that." is a crazy concept to me. I hope those people still use an outhouse and get to work on horseback... even those are luxuries by some standards lol.
What oil should I use? :ROFLMAO:
 

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This. Why do people have such a boner over what other people ride, and whether they are using that hardware to its full potential?

Other hobbies don't have this problem.
This. Why do people have such a boner over what other people ride, and whether they are using that hardware to its full potential?

Other hobbies don't have this problem.
Like every hobby I have every hobby I have been in has people that are like that (whether it is disc golf, cars, watches or cameras).
 
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Most definitely. I'm into music - you should see the arms race in musical instrument gear, it's kind of hilarious.
It's hilarious for a couple of reasons. Step one, buy a monster quad processor modeling board that has 129 amp models, 72 speaker models, 112 effects (30 simultaneous), IR loading, complex signal routing, combining, and software with a one month learning curve to know how to use it, because these things sound good and tube amps are obsolete. Step two, hand me my guitar. Les Paul or Strat or Tele please, I want it as old as possible in technology, look, and feel. Anything newer is stupid. Oh, and I'll need my 1964 design germanium fuzz to put in front of my modeler.

It's a weird, weird, world.
 

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All because I asked a question? The industry has shifted alot in the last 10-12 years. I'm not sure why it hurts you so badly that I was curious about why today people are riding bikes with much larger travel. I ride the same trails today that I stopped riding in 08. Back then the biggest fork you'd see there was 140. Flash forward to today it seems like 160 is the norm with larger travel than that mixed in as well. Is it really that weird that I would wonder why? Since I havent purchased a fs bike yet, I'm Not quite sure what you think I need confirmation on. That being said, when I see how angry you're getting at this thread, that tells me more than any marketing ad will about why people today are choosing the bikes that they are. Sounds to me like you're the one doing the dick swinging.
I'm not angry, I just think you're dumb.
 

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Longer travel bikes can be as light as a trail bike. Mine is set up like that. I have a Funn Mamba pedal that is cleat one side and flat the other.

During the weekdays, I take advantage of the light weight, clip into the spd, and do uphill intervals. On weekend, I put on 5/10s and go full sent on the longer trails going downhill.

Is definitely overbike for the uphills. But the weight is reasonable, and better than me forking out another few grands for a down country bike. The longer travel bikes are so capable climbing now, and overtime I put lots of light weight parts on it, big bike is no longer an issue except in xc racing scenario.
Ah yes, but shorter travel bikes can have more control in rough terrain when set up with better suspension....
 

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It also begs the question as to why we are riding in the first place. Every ride doesn't have to be a heroic adventure where we are riding at the very edge of our abilities. It's cool. It's a hobby and a sport. For me it's also my major form of cardiovascular exercise so, while I'm not getting big air all the time, I'm definitely riding hard enough uphill and on the flats to jack up my heart rate significantly and I seldom ride for less than two hours. Apart from those sloppy wankers on eBikes, it's cool no matter how you ride or what you ride.

I will most certainly never push my new Enduro build to it's limits but it's going to be a smooth, comfortable ride. I like to suffer on rides but not as a result of an uncomfortable bike.
 
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